Scope mystery, internals sticking?

[Doug Bogg]

Remington 700 in .243 ... newly mounted Prostaff scope. Today put maybe the twentieth round total through. Mounted scope carefully taking time and following best practices (I hope), torques, etc. Everything seems right.

At 100 yrds put through three groups of three, first group labeled as "1", second "2", third "3"

Group one had an outlier to the far left, so I considered group 1 to be the two on right. After group 1, turned 1/4 MOA turret ten clicks left, then put group 2. After group 2, turned five clicks left and got group 3. What went wrong?

I had received a friendly suggestion to give the scope a few taps with a rubber mallet before installation and also to adjust the turrets through their range of travel before installation, however unfortunately didn't follow that advice.

What am I doing wrong? Maybe now is the time to abandon this effort and turn the turrets both as far as they'll go in each direction to loosen up the internals and start over? Or just keep putting more rounds through? However that would get expensive. Feedback appreciated - thanks

 

[Dgd6mm]

I always exercise my turrets before I mount a new scope. There's no telling how long it's been made and sitting boxed up before you received it. Loosens the grease around the coil spring and allows fluent adjustment.

 

[snert]

I have never had any luck with Prostaff scopes. Or any scope at that price range.

Not trying to be a negative nelly but what you are seeing is generally what I have seen. Non-repeatable adjustment.

Buy once, cry once.

 

[Gargoyle]

"I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make the daggum thing drink!"

I was hoping to spare you of these results, but anyway...do the titty twist on the dials and if it don't track then you need to look at something that will, and that "will scope" is gonna cost. Cool ain't cheap. A dependable tracking scope ain't cheap. The closest cheaper scope that tracks "OK" is the FullField II line of scopes by Burris.

Don't beat yourself up about this. I didn't have a true tracking scope for years into my shooting/hunting career. Same as what you got in the pic. 10 clicks moves the POI 2" and 5 clicks moves it 10"! I didn't know that a scope should cost at least the price of the gun, even double the price of the gun. The scope is the gun's eyeball and a precision instrument. (supposed to be anyway)

 

[Doug Bogg]

"I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make the daggum thing drink!"

I was hoping to spare you of these results, but anyway...do the titty twist on the dials and if it don't track then you need to look at something that will, and that "will scope" is gonna cost. Cool ain't cheap. A dependable tracking scope ain't cheap. The closest cheaper scope that tracks "OK" is the FullField II line of scopes by Burris.

Don't beat yourself up about this. I didn't have a true tracking scope for years into my shooting/hunting career. Same as what you got in the pic. 10 clicks moves the POI 2" and 5 clicks moves it 10"! I didn't know that a scope should cost at least the price of the gun, even double the price of the gun. The scope is the gun's eyeball and a precision instrument. (supposed to be anyway)

Thanks for the replies. As a testament that replies are read and appreciated have gone back and reread comments to an earlier scope mounting post five or six times, and yep it was you @Gargoyle that mentioned the tap method and adjusting the turrets through the full range to help internals settle - thanks - and I do acknowledge others have mentioned that as well.

Scope mounting / use seems to be a topic of amazingly little consensus. I've recently read dozens of scope tutorials and watched a few videos and no where else seen mention of adjusting turrets through the full range other than here. But it seems like such a natural procedure.

I appreciate that I could explore finer scopes and lapping rings but I do have this scope mounted and deer season is slipping away and we'd like to put a little venison in the freezer. It's looking like elevation is holding and it's encouraging that within the same group I'm getting some acceptable consistency so today I'm expecting to make a note of the current windage setting, then adjusting windage through the full range a few times back-and-forth, getting back to approximately where it was, and put three more rounds through. If still getting non-predictable results this scope is coming off and will install a new-in-box Leupold and try again (of course after adjusting it through it's full range a few times). Thanks for feedback, much appreciated -

 

[Jeff Porter]

I have “ gotten away with “ ProStaff level scopes by fiddling with the knobs and getting it close enough to a zero and leaving it alone. Seemed to hold a zero once I got it centered up and printing at the correct elevation for zero desired. From there I used the duplex reticle and lowering magnification for drops at longer ranges. Not optimal but the bullets hit where I was aiming.

For a repeatable tracking budget minded scope I see CameraLand has S-Tac sightron with MOA -2 reticles on sale or check out Lancexxx sale prices here.

 

[Gargoyle]

Thanks for the replies. As a testament that replies are read and appreciated have gone back and reread comments to an earlier scope mounting post five or six times, and yep it was you @Gargoyle that mentioned the tap method and adjusting the turrets through the full range to help internals settle - thanks - and I do acknowledge others have mentioned that as well.

Scope mounting / use seems to be a topic of amazingly little consensus. I've recently read dozens of scope tutorials and watched a few videos and no where else seen mention of adjusting turrets through the full range other than here. But it seems like such a natural procedure.

I appreciate that I could explore finer scopes and lapping rings but I do have this scope mounted and deer season is slipping away and we'd like to put a little venison in the freezer. It's looking like elevation is holding and it's encouraging that within the same group I'm getting some acceptable consistency so today I'm expecting to make a note of the current windage setting, then adjusting windage through the full range a few times back-and-forth, getting back to approximately where it was, and put three more rounds through. If still getting non-predictable results this scope is coming off and will install a new-in-box Leupold and try again (of course after adjusting it through it's full range a few times). Thanks for feedback, much appreciated -

What model in the NIB Leupold?

 

[Doug Bogg]

I have “ gotten away with “ ProStaff level scopes by fiddling with the knobs and getting it close enough to a zero and leaving it alone. Seemed to hold a zero once I got it centered up and printing at the correct elevation for zero desired. From there I used the duplex reticle and lowering magnification for drops at longer ranges. Not optimal but the bullets hit where I was aiming.

For a repeatable tracking budget minded scope I see CameraLand has S-Tac sightron with MOA -2 reticles on sale or check out Lancexxx sale prices here.

This morning rotated the windage on the Prostaff stop-to-stop three times. It allows right at eight full rotations. Going to do the same to the elevation turret, then try to get back to original settings, and start with bore sighting.

Thanks for the comment. I've got to imagine that for a company that has sold millions of scopes, some of which get thousands of four and five star reviews, they can generally be made to work acceptably at 100 yrds. Sounds exercising the turrets would certainly help. And from now on, if determining needing to go some number of clicks in any direction, I'll go like triple that and then come back double keeping it loose and moving past the needed settings and then returning.

Thanks for the scope suggestion, will check out -

 

[Doug Bogg]

What model in the NIB Leupold?

Ordered this about five years ago when I was dabbling in the recreation and around the time I had gotten the Prostaff and Remington 700. I believe I saw it well discounted when poking around on-line.

Thanks for the suggestion on the Burris - I can see a new scope being ordered in the coming weeks

 

[Doug Bogg]

As a side note, I guess when exercising turrets when working on one turret it's better if the other turret is in it's mid-range of adjustment ... so you don't want to have both cranked to stops at the same time. Is it better to do one first/last? Like for example, always finish with >blank<?

 

[Doug Bogg]

I have “ gotten away with “ ProStaff level scopes by fiddling with the knobs and getting it close enough to a zero and leaving it alone. Seemed to hold a zero once I got it centered up and printing at the correct elevation for zero desired.

I can totally see what you're saying ... limp it to where it's working then just don't touch it I guess the only alternative is the garbage can

 

[Jeff Porter]

As a side note, I guess when exercising turrets when working on one turret it's better if the other turret is in it's mid-range of adjustment ... so you don't want to have both cranked to stops at the same time. Is it better to do one first/last? Like for example, always finish with >blank<?

Not sure it matters what order you do it in but it is critical ( as you noted ) to try to get them both in the middle when you start. I used to have a broken Tasco scope I used as a Demo of how the erector spring only pushed on one point of the erector tube (which contains the reticle )at 7:00 position with the W/E screws pushing against that from 12:00 and 3:00. The erector tube is a circle in side of a circle ( main body tube ). When you have the windage cranked to one side the “diameter” at that point is not as great as it is in the center and you will bind the erector tube and turn clicks that don’t move the reticle.

This is also why I like Burris Signature rings so I can center up the scope with the rings for bore sight with the erector tube W/E setttings in the middle.

Exercising the turrets spreads the dollop of grease they add at the factory across all the threads and works the spring to make sure it does not bind.

If you have to use the whack method to get the spring to move the erector tube …… your scope is not operating correctly. Also if you have to turn past the setting and come back to it to account for backlash, your internals are not well made.

 

[Doug Bogg]

Also if you have to turn past the setting and come back to it to account for backlash, your internals are not well made

Yep, I can appreciate that ... was just saying that it might be good practice, to keep internals moving, for example if wanting to go five clicks maybe go ten and then come back five, or similar. In defense of this scope it has been in a non-climate controlled basement safe untouched for five years, some break-in seems acceptable. We'll see a little later today if the turret exercise was a success. Odd that every scope tutorial doesn't include that suggestion

 

[boltfluter]

Always turn the turrets past where you want to finish up, and then finish up turning the turrets clockwise to remove the backlash. The same for windage and elevation. Good luck.
Paul

 

[Gargoyle]

Not sure it matters what order you do it in but it is critical ( as you noted ) to try to get them both in the middle when you start. I used to have a broken Tasco scope I used as a Demo of how the erector spring only pushed on one point of the erector tube (which contains the reticle )at 7:00 position with the W/E screws pushing against that from 12:00 and 3:00. The erector tube is a circle in side of a circle ( main body tube ). When you have the windage cranked to one side the “diameter” at that point is not as great as it is in the center and you will bind the erector tube and turn clicks that don’t move the reticle.

Neat!

This is also why I like Burris Signature rings so I can center up the scope with the rings for bore sight with the erector tube W/E setttings in the middle.

Right on!

Exercising the turrets spreads the dollop of grease they add at the factory across all the threads and works the spring to make sure it does not bind.

I find it funny when people comment about audible clicks on a scope. Like the Arkens. "It ain't got no grease in it!"

If you have to use the whack method to get the spring to move the erector tube …… your scope is not operating correctly.

Shame on Trijicon circa 2006

Also if you have to turn past the setting and come back to it to account for backlash, your internals are not well made.

Fosho!

 

[Doug Bogg]

Boy am I a newb. Had never bore sighted a rifle. So after my big turret stop-to-stop exercise a few times ran to mechanical centers and set up looking down the barrel on a bright orange object and then looked through the scope. What? How could they both be pointed at the exact same place? Also, had never looked through a scope while adjusting the turrets (impossible to imagine) until now, everything seemed to move well, nicely crisp (is that called "tracking"?). Ok, so then adjusted back for bore and scope to be on the same bright object.

Had lost track of the initial windage setting and although had forgotten how many rotations from stop, did remember the numerical setting for elevation. So after adjusting looked up at the numerical setting and there it was, the same number. Going back out live to see what happens.

 

[Doug Bogg]

 

[Gargoyle]

View attachment 1395714

at least one more...

 

[ShtrRdy]

Dang, that's way better bore sighting than I've ever done! I'm usually about 6" away from the aiming point with the first shot.

 

[Gargoyle]

Dang, that's way better bore sighting than I've ever done! I'm usually about 6" away from the aiming point.

He sure drilled it, didn't he! LOL