Nightforce Scope Problem

[lgwatson]

No one is perfect. Likewise, no manufacturer has an absolutely perfect track record. If a problem occurs, the first step should always be to give the manufacturer the opportunity to correct the problem.

That's what I'm trying to do. After they received the scope, they called and said nothing is wrong with it. Here is the email I sent today: I contacted Stiller (action manufacturer). He advised that he shoots bench
rest and does not bed his bases, nor does he recommend it. I have run two
additional tests: In the first, the gunsmith mounted an old Weaver K-15
known to hold zero. The rifle fired a three round group. Two rounds in one
hole and one less than one-half inch from the first two. Next, I mounted a
Leupold VX-6 4-24 scope using Vortex matched rings. The rifle fired eleven
rounds in one ragged hole. It should be noted that these were fire-form
loads. I have been using this load for prairie dogs out to 300 yards before
the scope developed problems. I do not believe at this point there is any
explanation for this problem other than the Nightforce scope is not holding
zero. Whatever testing you have done is not diagnosing the problem.
Nightforce has a good reputation for quality products, and I trust you will
make this right.

Here is their reply:

Thank you for the update regarding your correspondence.

If the concern persists, we would be happy to inspect the optic for you again.

Regards,

 

[lgwatson]

That's what I'm trying to do. After they received the scope, they called and said nothing is wrong with it. Here is the email I sent today: I contacted Stiller (action manufacturer). He advised that he shoots bench
rest and does not bed his bases, nor does he recommend it. I have run two
additional tests: In the first, the gunsmith mounted an old Weaver K-15
known to hold zero. The rifle fired a three round group. Two rounds in one
hole and one less than one-half inch from the first two. Next, I mounted a
Leupold VX-6 4-24 scope using Vortex matched rings. The rifle fired eleven
rounds in one ragged hole. It should be noted that these were fire-form
loads. I have been using this load for prairie dogs out to 300 yards before
the scope developed problems. I do not believe at this point there is any
explanation for this problem other than the Nightforce scope is not holding
zero. Whatever testing you have done is not diagnosing the problem.
Nightforce has a good reputation for quality products, and I trust you will
make this right.

Here is their reply:

Thank you for the update regarding your correspondence.

If the concern persists, we would be happy to inspect the optic for you again.

Regards,

Here is my reply to their reply:


If you still have the scope, please do additional testing. Ammo and shipping are expensive. I have addressed all of your suggestions. Maybe someone could explain to me why the rifle shoots as it should with two other scopes using the same base. I purchased this scope (my first Nightforce) based on your reputation for excellent products and service, and would appreciate your assistance in this matter.

 

[lgwatson]

Here is my reply to their reply:


If you still have the scope, please do additional testing. Ammo and shipping are expensive. I have addressed all of your suggestions. Maybe someone could explain to me why the rifle shoots as it should with two other scopes using the same base. I purchased this scope (my first Nightforce) based on your reputation for excellent products and service, and would appreciate your assistance in this matter.

Here is their reply to my reply to their reply:


Lonnie,

The optic has already shipped back. Shaquille and Robert both spoke with you extensively regarding additional troubleshooting. Unfortunately, replacing the optic with one that weighs substantially less than the optic that you sent in so if the problem goes away when you put a lighter optic on the rifle, it leads us to believe that youor mounting configuration is tolerating the lighter optic but struggling once they additional weight is added. The optic did go through two complete inspections with our two most senior optic technicians in an effort to find any and all issues with the scope and it checked out to meet all specifications. Unfortunately, while we can isolate the optic and test it as an individual component to the weapon system, we can o only that but we can assure you that the optic is performing nominally and it is not the culprit to your point of impact shift.

That being said, we would be very happy to troubleshoot this further with you. If you would like to call, please ask for Robert, Shaquille or myself (Bill) as there are likely more steps that we can go through. I personally shot Benchrest for years as well as Robert and Shaquille being very experienced long range shooters and there are certainly more troubleshooting steps we can assist with if you do not believe the base shifting can be the issue. Please note, however, that this is a very common problem causing exactly what you are experiencing.

We look forward to speaking with you if you would like to discuss this further.

Regards,





Bill Wortman
Technical Support, Customer Service 2

Nightforce Optics, Inc
336 Hazen Lane, Orofino, Idaho 83544
(208)476-9814 p
(208)476-9817 f
info@nightforceoptics.com

www.nightforceoptics.com

 

[FatBoy]

Retest it. The scope may be fixed. It sucks, but there isn't much else to do short of selling it off.

 

[284winner]

Sell it and buy a Leupold. Simple fix.

 

[lgwatson]

Here is their reply to my reply to their reply:


Lonnie,

The optic has already shipped back. Shaquille and Robert both spoke with you extensively regarding additional troubleshooting. Unfortunately, replacing the optic with one that weighs substantially less than the optic that you sent in so if the problem goes away when you put a lighter optic on the rifle, it leads us to believe that youor mounting configuration is tolerating the lighter optic but struggling once they additional weight is added. The optic did go through two complete inspections with our two most senior optic technicians in an effort to find any and all issues with the scope and it checked out to meet all specifications. Unfortunately, while we can isolate the optic and test it as an individual component to the weapon system, we can o only that but we can assure you that the optic is performing nominally and it is not the culprit to your point of impact shift.

That being said, we would be very happy to troubleshoot this further with you. If you would like to call, please ask for Robert, Shaquille or myself (Bill) as there are likely more steps that we can go through. I personally shot Benchrest for years as well as Robert and Shaquille being very experienced long range shooters and there are certainly more troubleshooting steps we can assist with if you do not believe the base shifting can be the issue. Please note, however, that this is a very common problem causing exactly what you are experiencing.

We look forward to speaking with you if you would like to discuss this further.

Regards,





Bill Wortman
Technical Support, Customer Service 2

Nightforce Optics, Inc
336 Hazen Lane, Orofino, Idaho 83544
(208)476-9814 p
(208)476-9817 f
info@nightforceoptics.com

www.nightforceoptics.com

Retest it. The scope may be fixed. It sucks, but there isn't much else to do short of selling it off.

Here is my last reply:

The Leupold VX-6 is a 34mm tube scope weighs 24.30 ounces. Not as heavy as the Nightforce, but not a light scope. I will test the scope again when I receive it, employing the suggestions your people gave me. I will bet dollars to donut holes that the problem will persist while hoping it is resolved. If not resolved, maybe you could recommend a good scope repair company although that would void your “warranty”.

 

[lgwatson]

Retest it. The scope may be fixed. It sucks, but there isn't much else to do short of selling it off.

Any suggestions on how to sell it. I certainly wouldn't sell it without telling the buyer about the problems.

 

[284winner]

Knowing the problem still is occurring, NF should simply send you a new scope, Period. No more questions asked. If it's not beat up and abused, it should be replaced. Look at Bushnell. You can run there's over with a Tank and they'd replace it FREE. Don't really get it.

 

[FatBoy]

Any suggestions on how to sell it. I certainly wouldn't sell it without telling the buyer about the problems.

I would retest it before I did anything else. They may have fixed it. I send one into Vortex, they said nothing was wrong. It came back and works great. Go figure.

I wonder sometimes if these companies intentionally don't say it was broken or are super vague so Internet chatter doesn't blow an issue or two out of proportion ? How many times have we seen 1 or 2 examples of an issue blow up on the Internet overnight?

If it still doesn't track and you want to sell it instead of sending it back to NF you're going to take a hit, but just put a brief explanation in the sale thread.

I.e. - "scope appeared to have zero shifting. NF gave it a clean bill of health. I'm moving onto something else "

or "I don't trust it (or, still not holding zero on my rifle)"

and expect to be get beat up for about $500 or trade it off.

 

[lgwatson]

I would retest it before I did anything else. They may have fixed it. I send one into Vortex, they said nothing was wrong. It came back and works great. Go figure.

I wonder sometimes if these companies intentionally don't say it was broken or are super vague so Internet chatter doesn't blow an issue or two out of proportion ? How many times have we seen 1 or 2 examples of an issue blow up on the Internet overnight?

If it still doesn't track and you want to sell it instead of sending it back to NF you're going to take a hit, but just put a brief explanation in the sale thread.

I.e. - "scope appeared to have zero shifting. NF gave it a clean bill of health. I'm moving onto something else "

or "I don't trust it (or, still not holding zero on my rifle)"

and expect to be get beat up for about $500 or trade it off.

I hope they fix it. If they do and don't tell me that's OK. I just want it to work. If it doesn't, I will send it back. Thank you for your input.

 

[lgwatson]

Knowing the problem still is occurring, NF should simply send you a new scope, Period. No more questions asked. If it's not beat up and abused, it should be replaced. Look at Bushnell. You can run there's over with a Tank and they'd replace it FREE. Don't really get it.

I had a a Burris that didn't hold zero, and they replaced it and sent me a cap (head gear) for my trouble. I once left my Burris scope caps at the range and discovered it about 3 days before leaving for a hunt. I called Burris and offered to pay for Fedex. Burris rep sent me two pairs of scope caps and they paid the FEDEX bill. In my many years of dealing with companies in the firearms industry, I have never before encountered poor customer service. Maybe they will repair it and not tell me, and that's OK. I just want it to work and not have someone urinating on my back and telling me it's raining.

 

[msinc]

I kind of had the same scenario/problem...I put an SHV on a Kimber Mountain Ascent and the only rings and bases the gunshop had in stock was the Redfield style with the windage screws in the rear. The rifle shot all over the place. I was getting good solid 3" groups and thought I had an ammo or rifle problem.
I called Nightforce and they told me the same thing...the scope is too heavy for those rings, especially in a super lightweight rifle in 280AI. I switched the SHV for a much lighter scope and the rifle shot 1/2" groups. I then put the SHV on a heavier rifle {same caliber} with Leupold dual dovetail rings and it shoots and zeros just fine. I guess the bottom line is that you have to match the weight of the scope and the amount of recoil to rings and bases that will stand it. I did what they suggested and it worked for me.
Dont get me wrong, I am not a Nightforce fanboy, in fact this is the first one I have owned and if the gunshop would have carried anything else I probably would have bought that. Personally I think Nightforce scopes are way over priced for Phillippine optics, but I am overall pretty happy with this SHV.

 

[peter6mm]

Seems like a mounting problem to me, as advised by Nightforce. Testing it again with the same mounts you used last time will prove nothing.

Why not do as they suggest and seek their further advice? Or do you want to just trash them?

So far you've proven two different scopes with different mounts work OK, Leupold 34mm mounts and Weaver 1 inch mounts. Take Nightforce's advice which seems very sensible and trying to help you solve a problem.

 

[lgwatson]

Seems like a mounting problem to me, as advised by Nightforce. Testing it again with the same mounts you used last time will prove nothing.

Why not do as they suggest and seek their further advice? Or do you want to just trash them?

So far you've proven two different scopes with different mounts work OK, Leupold 34mm mounts and Weaver 1 inch mounts. Take Nightforce's advice which seems very sensible and trying to help you solve a problem.

I'm using Nightforce rings. I will test again using a proven load and employing their suggestions.

 

[lgwatson]

I'm using Nightforce rings. I will test again using a proven load and employing their suggestions.

I have not trashed them. If you read my other comments I stated they have a good reputation and products.

 

[lgwatson]

Seems like a mounting problem to me, as advised by Nightforce. Testing it again with the same mounts you used last time will prove nothing.

Why not do as they suggest and seek their further advice? Or do you want to just trash them?

So far you've proven two different scopes with different mounts work OK, Leupold 34mm mounts and Weaver 1 inch mounts. Take Nightforce's advice which seems very sensible and trying to help you solve a problem.

I have not trashed them. I previously stated they have a good reputation. Their optics have been used winning major matches and setting records. It could be that when they have so few problems, it is difficult for them to find them. I also contacted Stiller, the manufacturer of my action and base regarding the weight of the scope. They advised that the base has been used mounting heavier optics without problems. I am not an optics expert, it is frustrating to pay for an expensive scope and it not perform. I do not even expect them to tell me what, if anything they found. I will test again using a proven load and employing their suggestions.

 

[shoot4fun]

I don't mind testing it for you.
Just send it to me and I'll send you pics every now and then on how it's doing.

 

[lgwatson]

I don't mind testing it for you.
Just send it to me and I'll send you pics every now and then on how it's doing.

I'm going to do another test employing their suggestions. If that fails, I may take you up on your offer. Thank you for your input.

 

[Ned Ludd]

With as many NF users as there are at this forum, your ultimate resolution of the issue, good or bad, would be of benefit to many, and much appreciated. Let us know how it works out.

 

[lgwatson]

With as many NF users as there are at this forum, your ultimate resolution of the issue, good or bad, would be of benefit to many, and much appreciated. Let us know how it works out.

I received the scope, mounted per their suggestions, and torqued it to their specs. I will test it and report results. I'm convinced Nightforce makes good quality optics. Their scopes have been used to set records and win many matches. I also know that anything mechanical can fail and no manufacturer is perfect.