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School me on actions...

  • Thread starter Thread starter ducks-and-bucks
  • Start date Start date

ducks-and-bucks

I really don't have any idea on this subject so please give me your opinions and knowledge!

I know a full blown custom action like a stiller or surgeon is machined to very accurate measurements, other than that what is the difference between a TRUED remington 700 action and a custom action? I can see that the custom action is just more uniform in every way, but as far as accuracy, is it worth paying double the cost of a trued remington action, or getting two trued remington actions to build off of for the same price? I know the custom action is higher quality as well. I guess what I am asking is if I build off of a trued up remington action will it be able to give me a good quality rifle?
 
It really depends on what your wanting to do. Is this a custom hunting rifle project or something strictly for competitions?
 
What you need to be careful of is that all trued actions are not the same, and that the work may not include tightening up tolerances to what they are in a custom action. If the very best work is done, single pointing the threads, bushing the bold body, and the bolt face, the cost is more than half that of a custom action, but if you are comparing actions with magazines, I doubt that you would see much of a difference in accuracy. I have an old 722 that has a tight neck chambered Hart barrel, in .222, that has shot five shot groups in the high ones. I hasten to add that it is glued into a prototype McMillan EDGE stock, has a Canjar 2 oz. trigger, a 36X B&L scope, and was being shot using wind flags, off of a good rest setup, with fully tuned loads that were developed at the range.
 
[quote author=ducksanbuckslink=topic=3804272.msg36166906#msg36166906 date=1359151392]Don't ever plan to sale it if it works good.[/quote]

Ha ha...you keep telling yourself that..... :)
 
One common, easier, and much less time consuming way to recut threads is with a piloted tap, and while in some cases this may yield satisfactory results, I personally know of a couple of 700s that would not have come close to having their threads cleaned up by a .010 over sized tap. Their thread diameters had to be enlarged by .025 or more. This is what I was talking about, what you may have is an apples and oranges situation. Do you know what the term single pointing action threads refers to? Also for the best work, lapping of lugs is only done to improve machined finish. dimensional and alignment correction is done by setting the bolt up on the lathe and recutting. Then there is still bolt fit. One other issue is the common feature of many factory of their scope base attachment holes being considerably out of line with the action. This is the case on the 722 that I wrote of in a previous post.
 
ducks-and-bucks said:
Work on the 700 action is the following:

Face squared
Lug abutments squared
Threads cut in line with raceway
Bolt lugs lapped
Bolt face squared​
​Includes factory Remington trigger - which would be replaced....
​
Bolt bushed/timed, FP bushed /Turned+ others it all adds up.
 
Boyd,

Not sure if I missed it but I would like to know what "Do you know what the term single pointing action threads refers to?'
 
I was simply inquiring if he was aware of how the best work of this sort is done, setting the action body up in the lathe, usually with a special fixture, so that the center line of the bolt raceway is perfectly coaxial with the spindle CL, and then picking up the internal thread with an internal threading cutter on a boring bar, and opening up the thread diameter until the threads are fully trued, showing a fresh cut on their complete profile and length. While the action is still in the fixture, lug seats, and the face of the action are squared, then the bolt is set up and its rear locking surfaces and the bolt face are squared, as well as truing up the OD of the bolt nose (on a Remington) There are other details, but I think that this will suffice to give you the idea of how labor intensive this way of doing action work is compared to running in a piloted tap and other tools. On the other hand, if the action does not require much correction of the threads, a tap can go an adequate job for most applications. The trouble is that if you try it, and it doesn't clean up, you have wasted the effort, and to do a proper job, you will have to start over from scratch, setting it up in the lathe. I skipped over the many details involved in bushing the bolt body and the firing pin hole in the action face.
 
A piloted tap will not make the threads run true. It will just follow the threads that are already there so if the original threads are running out, they'll be running out after you tap them. The only way to get them true is to single point cut them in a lathe.
 
I have a tap kit and for the most part it cleans and trues everything up pretty good. It did not work on more than one action though. Not long ago I did an action that the threads were cut eccentric to the bolt raceway. When I ran the tap through it all it did was flex and make the threads a larger diameter that remained offset to the centerline.
I then made a mandrel for it, indicated it in the lathe, and had to take an additional .025 to get the eccentricity out of it.

I like the 700's. Knowing they're right is comforting to me.

Jim
 
Hostil- I don't see how a tap can true anything. As dipper stated the tap will follow the existing threads...if they were not concentric, it is improbable that the tap corrected that problem.
 
Here is a pretty good discussion that has a lot more details about this type of tooling. There is more than one source. http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?62643-Dave-Kiff-s-AMAZING-Rem-700-Action-Truing-tool!/page2
 
When referring to the truing aspect in my last post, I'm talking about the other attributes of the kit. If an actions threads are GTG to start with, the lugs kiss up nicely and the front of the action is held proper for single pointing the face in the lathe using the tap kit as the mandrel.

Aside from that. I believe the thread tap can remove a little error in offset just not much.
I've noticed that as long as the action and bolt face are square you can get away with a little thread misalignment if they're cut a smidge loose. I just don't care to see much play in the threads and prefer to single point the action and fit the barrel.

Jim
 
First, which is penny wise and pound foolish.

Most customs cost from $850.00 to $1250.00 not including the trigger, mag well, and bottom metal.
They are made to the customers desired spec.

Most Remington cost $350.00 to $750.00 depending on the donor action. I usually comes with trigger, recoil lug, mag well, and bottom metal.

There are multiple levels of fix.

Clean up action face.

Clean up abutment lugs.

Clean up threads

Clean up bolt lugs

Remove and move bolt handle correcting timing and primary extraction

Reaming bolt race

Replacing bolt body (with precision ground(fluted or round)), extractor, bolt handle, bolt knob

Replacing factory recoil lug with precision ground lug

Replacing factory trigger with jewell of better.

You see the cost of a custom action looks to be a much better deal.

Nat Lambeth
 
Some Rem. actions are so bad they can't be trued,and it is still a Remmy. I would spend my money on a clone, Pierce, Kelbly, Borden or some others. Start with something good,plus a longer bolt handle.....jim
 
Another possible approach is to get one of the Savage stainless model 12 actions from Jim Briggs. Very nice and perfectly suited for what you want without requiring any "accurizing". Comes with DBM and a decent trigger for $480 and they are in stock ready to ship. I never understood the Rem 700 fascination. A box stock late model Savage action can accomplish the same thing as a Rem 700 that has had a bunch of extra money spent to fix its flaws. I know some will say they don't like the appearance of the barrel nut; if that's the case have your smith machine the barrel with a shoulder. Others will gripe about available triggers; the Rifle Basix Sav II is a fine unit for all but the most discerning.

I've included Jim's ad below.

http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?192-Contact-Information-for-NSS-(Northland-Shooters-Supply)

These are the no longer in production Savage #18524, Savage Varmint Actions. They are all non-designated Stainless Varmint Actions (same as a Model 12).

Savage agreed to make a production run if we would buy them all. We have these available at this time. Here are the details:
Savage - Varmint Action - Stainless - RH - SA - Centerfeed - .473 Bolt Face - 1 1/2 lb Accu-Trigger - $480.00 + S&H to your local FFL.
(Small Shank Actions)

Varmint Actions include - DBM (243/308) - Stainless Bottom Metal (for your stock) - Stainless Trigger Guard - Normal parts with the action, bolt, Accu-Trigger, Savage Recoil Lug and square cut notch barrel nut.

Jim Briggs

Contact Information for NSS:
E-mail - briggs.j-b@q.com (that is Q.com not G.com)
Phone - 763/682-4296 - BEST WAY TO CONTACT ME
Fax - 763/682-6098
Mailing address:
PO Box 333
Buffalo, MN 55313
 

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