Savage and Remage

[XTR]

Once you Loctitie the nut, it is the same. I am REALLY surprised no one has made a nut with a JAMB nut. IT seems like an obvious thing to me. Until then I just use Loctite. I can change barrels in about a minute or two.

I understand what you are doing, but why bother with the nut at all unless it's to buy prefit barrels? I've bought one from Criterion once. Only reason I did it was that I was impatient to get a 223 running one yr. Since then I've been able to take the time to get one chambered to my specs.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I understand what you are doing, but why bother with the nut at all unless it's to buy prefit barrels? I've bought one from Criterion once. Only reason I did it was that I was impatient to get a 223 running one yr. Since then I've been able to take the time to get one chambered to my specs.

1. Well, I don't have a gunsmith local that I would trust to make a barrel.
2. I don't have to send off my action and have it sit in some guy's shop for 6 months or more while I wait for him to make me a barrel.
3. It is CHEAPER. Since the company I uses has a CNC machine to contour and run the threads, they charge about $150 labor plus the blank cost. So, a Bartlein cost me about $450 -$500. Many of the smiths doing these barrels are buying the blanks pre contoured and very little work is required since they are not having to headspace to an action.
4. And I use my own reamers when I need too. I simply send them to the prefit maker and they send them back when they are done.

The idea of putting together your own rifles with CNC made parts has arrived. Like I said nut barrels are the future. You hide and watch.

 

[spife7980]

Once you Loctitie the nut, it is the same. I am REALLY surprised no one has made a nut with a JAMB nut. IT seems like an obvious thing to me. Until then I just use Loctite. I can change barrels in about a minute or two.

I was just thinking of a locking barrel nut. We have lock rings on our reloading dies, why not on our barrel nuts? My original idea was just tapping it like the rcbs and redding lock rings only doing it on three sides just to even out the load.


In a sense someone has already done this though in a much more savvy way. American rifle co made the barloc. It takes the other forster and hornady lock ring design that pinches only they added some slanted sides so that as you tighten it it wedges barrel and rifle apart preloading the threads.

https://www.americanrifle.com/product/barloc-barrel-quick-change-device-for-1-063-x-20tpi-thread/

 

[okie]

wow--you guys have me convinced--the nut is the way to go

 

[hoz53]

The only benefit I see to this is buying prefit barrels. If you have your own reamer (I do) or use your smiths reamers a barrel vise is about $50 and you can switch barrels all day long and not worry about head spacing.

I've got one Savage, and I've got 4 other actions (2Rem, Defiance, Panda) that have 2 to 4 barrels each that I swap as I desire. Two of those actions have multiple chamberings (one 223/208 one 6SLR/308). Never touch a headspace gauge to change them; spin one off, spin another on. It take slightly longer than taking off the scope caps.

In the case of my 308s all the barrels chambered with the same reamer can use the same brass. One more thing that makes life easier.

i like your method better than having a nut. i got a lathe so i could do it that way. the accuracy of the nut barrels satisfys most that have them and they are cheaper than having a gunsmith chamber a barrel for you so this is the attraction i guess.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

They make those nice stick on fender vents for the do it yourselfer too.
So on a remington, whats the chances of having the bolt nose recess AND the headspace correct on a prefit? Im guessing good enough to not blow up maybe.

 

[urbanrifleman]

They make those nice stick on fender vents for the do it yourselfer too.
So on a remington, whats the chances of having the bolt nose recess AND the headspace correct on a prefit? Im guessing good enough to not blow up maybe.

I haven't heard of this being is big problem. Savage doesn't have a recess.

As far as do it yourselfers, this hobby is one of the few that I have been involved in that people take more pride in spending money, than they do in doing it themselves. Thank goodness you don't see that in hot rodding, or you would only have factory drag racers. I grew up wrenching on cars, we managed to get along without getting permission from Chevrolet. We didn't need stick on fender vents to go under 10 seconds...

Do it yourself is American. Just go Home Depot or Lowes... It started with the AR15. Now you have the tube guns like the Ruger and nut barrels and stripped actions at retail outlets for builders.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

What if when you screw the barrel down to the go gage and you have .015 or .020 bolt face clearance- will that contain that explosion or will that savage become one of the other grenaded actions you see from time to time? I think people have lost touch with just how much pressure is going off inches from their body parts. A do it yourself hot rodder walks when he makes a mistake: what does a shooter do when he makes a mistake loading with a rifle already on the edge of tolerances?

 

[hpshooter]

"They make those nice stick on fender vents for the do it yourselfer too."

Dusty,
Laughing my rather copious arse off, thought I was the only one in the world who noticed them. Visions of the 50's when we mentally "customized" the family ride while scanning the J C Whitney and Almaquist catalogs!

Back on topic, I have 3 factory barreled Savages and one of them (.223 4x4) has shot in the mid 190's at our clubs 300 yd "F" class matches so I am not a charter member in the "Nut Knockers" club. But when I sprung for a Masterclass prone stock and an 6.5x47 L Pacnor medium Palma barrel in 2008 I had Pacnor fit it to the PTA action without the nut. Just didn't want that nut messing up Mr. Sittman's stock.

Do believe that the nut systems allow a lot of people who would be shooting off the shelf rifles otherwise have some darn accurate rifles with a sense of satisfaction that they assembled it. Aesthetics, perceived convenience/cost, intended use for the firearm and an individual's sense of mechanical correctness determines which method is used.

You got me wondering how a couple of those stick on vents would look on the fairing on my 1978 900SS Ducati.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

They would be nice on there

 

[Mark W]

I also came from a hotrod background and enjoy the diy aspect of the shooting sports. I actually enjoy working on my own rifles just about as much as I do shooting.

Since I’m not a competitor of any sorts I would rather shoot good with a gun that I worked on myself than great with a 5k gun than I paid the best smith in the land to build.

Add that the fact that quality smiths don’t exactly grow on trees and it makes the diy aspect even more attractive. Guns are a only hobby for me. Something I do for fun! Researching, buying, assembling, are the fun part. Excessive time spent waiting for a guns to come back from a gunsmith are not fun to me. I don’t care how much nicer the outcome.

With the exception of lathe work I can do pretty much anything myself with relatively inexpensive tools. If I were younger and had more time on my hands I would consider buying a lathe and try my hand at learning to do machine work.

It’s obviously not for everyone but the barrel nut is here to stay and will probably only gain in popularity.

 

[Taildrag15X]

What if when you screw the barrel down to the go gage and you have .015 or .020 bolt face clearance- will that contain that explosion or will that savage become one of the other grenaded actions you see from time to time? I think people have lost touch with just how much pressure is going off inches from their body parts. A do it yourself hot rodder walks when he makes a mistake: what does a shooter do when he makes a mistake loading with a rifle already on the edge of tolerances?

Dusty I would hope the "gunsmith" or "mass production factory" knows enough to have .125000" of the case sticking out to the world on a Savage
pre-fit barrel.

What has worried me before is seeing pics of Savage barrels for sale with heavy stamping on them in this important spot you speak of, turns my stomach knowing what can happen.

 

[DirtySteve]

I am a nut fan as well. I have not had a custom barrel put on with a nut that I was not completely satisfied with.

 

[mike a]

What if when you screw the barrel down to the go gage and you have .015 or .020 bolt face clearance- will that contain that explosion or will that savage become one of the other grenaded actions you see from time to time? I think people have lost touch with just how much pressure is going off inches from their body parts. A do it yourself hot rodder walks when he makes a mistake: what does a shooter do when he makes a mistake loading with a rifle already on the edge of tolerances?

hi dusty, maybe I just learned something from your post. I recently changed the barrel on my Ruger Precision Rifle. It has a recessed bolt head. I believe what your saying is the barrel could be touching the bolt before the gauge
is touching the bolt. Im trying to fully understand this. Thanx Mike a

 

[Dusty Stevens]

hi dusty, maybe I just learned something from your post. I recently changed the barrel on my Ruger Precision Rifle. It has a recessed bolt head. I believe what your saying is the barrel could be touching the bolt before the gauge
is touching the bolt. Im trying to fully understand this. Thanx Mike a

Mike if you need to call me i can explain better or maybe i can text you some pics of a napkin drawing i can do that shows what you are looking for and how you can check it just pm me for my phone number

 

[TRA]

I agree with the future of a lock nut system, even the savage style. The AR type looks interesting but the other one with set screws in the action locking up the barrel will be a short lived woodie. It's designed to fail.

Not everyone is Tom who can get his gunsmith to perform miracles. Like overnight barrels, modifications, stock work, etc,etc. Most of us are held ransom for months, years even. I have various actions, all with non compatable tenons. say
I wanted to use a barrel from a bat, I'd have to have another barrel chambered with same reamer and fitted to my other action.

For the non wood dreamers, the most who are social shooters, pd, shooters and just plain fun shooters, Hunters, could have a handful of barrels chambered and threaded to the most common thread pitch and use locking double nuts or the AR style or a similar setup. Then you would have total control of your mix and match, without having to pay twice and wait twice as long for gunsmiths to deliver your barrels.

I say the market it eager for a better way. As soon as the high end target folks tone down the need to spend thousands of dollars for parts and then send them to them to tweak the parts so you will have a .001 agg rifle that you don't need, nor could you shoot it that well, if you had to.

The nut systems should easily shoot under.250, and if you need anymore than that you should be calling guys like ?Alex and pay the piper.

We already determined the quality of threads and action threads were purely aesthetics and machinists pride or ego. The issue about cambering has been debunked, and the only thing that matters is in the neck being concentric to the bore. We have even shown that bolt bodies are better loose.

With all these details not needing to be precise, I'm a bit baffled as to why these same people say such bad things about barrel nuts.

From my take of the need or not... for precision fits on the tenon and action, the barrel nut locking system would all but have to be a plus.

 

[Dgd6mm]

I wish every nutted rifle I own would easily shoot 5 shot .250" groups. Fact is they don't, you have to work on it to get that kind of accuracy, and it can be done.

Funny thing is less than 2 years ago I called Greg Young at Bugholes. I asked him if he chambered barrels for Savage actions using the nut, he said no that he does not. Well I went ahead and bought 2 Krieger barrels from him, he shipped them to Dave Bruno for me and Dave Bruno chambered both barrels into 6mm Competition Match's. Guess what Greg does now.... he offers Bartlein barrels chambered for Savage actions as a pre fit. He started doing this about 6 months after I purchased the barrels. I would bet he also does this for Remington's.

Why do you think Greg does this?

Don Dunlap

 

[urbanrifleman]

I also came from a hotrod background and enjoy the diy aspect of the shooting sports. I actually enjoy working on my own rifles just about as much as I do shooting.

Since I’m not a competitor of any sorts I would rather shoot good with a gun that I worked on myself than great with a 5k gun than I paid the best smith in the land to build.

Add that the fact that quality smiths don’t exactly grow on trees and it makes the diy aspect even more attractive. Guns are a only hobby for me. Something I do for fun! Researching, buying, assembling, are the fun part. Excessive time spent waiting for a guns to come back from a gunsmith are not fun to me. I don’t care how much nicer the outcome.

With the exception of lathe work I can do pretty much anything myself with relatively inexpensive tools. If I were younger and had more time on my hands I would consider buying a lathe and try my hand at learning to do machine work.

It’s obviously not for everyone but the barrel nut is here to stay and will probably only gain in popularity.

Your post mirrors my feelings almost exactly, especially the whole "gunsmiths" and "trees", and I find people who brag about how much they spend on rifles so they can "win" simply bizarre. Let's keep in mind, aside from maybe the 50 guys on here that constantly harp about "winning the nationals", "setting records" or some other thing to say that anything that you are doing except trying out for the Olympic biathlon squad makes you a peasant or a heathen and don't deserve to even speak in the presence of the elite, most people are competing at the club level and doing quite well with guns that are readily available.

I saw a picture of the 1000 yard bench rest Nationals from last year. It was like 18 guys. It is not a big group, and by the looks of the guys ages it is not getting bigger with time... If they want to spend 5K building a rifle, that's fine by me, but it is BY FAR a tiny minority of the population.

 

[Tempest]

We have even shown that bolt bodies are better loose.

Expand on this comment if you can.

Glad to see a number here are car guys as well.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Not everyone is Tom who can get his gunsmith to perform miracles. Like overnight barrels, modifications, stock work, etc,etc. Most of us are held ransom for months, years even.

Yah man, how do I get one of those!!!!

I won't do it. It is a ridiculous practice. This idea that you have to send your action or rifle to a smith and IT SITS IN A SAFE until he decides to get to it. I mean, tell me any other business that does this???!!! I always found it ODD that smith would want to have a whole bunch of customer rifles on his property for months or years at a time. The LIABILITY!! I mean... You can't have list? And call someone when they are next? That is just an ODD PRACTICE.

I won't do it. Screw it. The nut might be ugly, but its not that ugly... That is just stupid.