Rimfire Tuners

[stonegraham]

If you want to try a quicker method of finding the the tune for your rifle, give the Purdy PRX a look. Listed on this page.
http://www.rimfirebenchrest.com/tools/test-page.html

thanks for the link, i found it helpful too

 

[BP1]

So I have the pro x tuner with the brass weights and the other weights..the inner part of the brass weight is fine threaded and the outer threads are coarse threads.So what am I missing here would like to add as much weight needed if need be but can’t with the way the threads are.What do I need for this to work?

 

[Brett Ritter]

This is awesome to see because I have a Harrel's tuner for my CZ457 but could never figure it out so it just sits on my bench. I tried it several times but just couldn't decipher the results to know what I was going after.

Stick it on and get some good rounds to test. I ran the full adjustment range of the tuner and found some great nodes to retest. They have repeated for different rounds.

 

[linekin]

So I have the pro x tuner with the brass weights and the other weights..the inner part of the brass weight is fine threaded and the outer threads are coarse threads.So what am I missing here would like to add as much weight needed if need be but can’t with the way the threads are.What do I need for this to work?

I'm not very familiar with your tuner other than I've heard of them. The brass weight is on the end of your tuner currently? Which end goes on to the Pro-X tuner? Could it be an adapter for the standard Riverside/Harrel's weights?

 

[BP1]

I'm not very familiar with your tuner other than I've heard of them. The brass weight is on the end of your tuner currently? Which end goes on to the Pro-X tuner? Could it be an adapter for the standard Riverside/Harrel's weights?

Yeah I figured it out..will have to go with the Harrell weight system..just don’t know why in the hell someone would put coarse on one side and fine on the other

 

[doclu60]

Yeah I figured it out..will have to go with the Harrell weight system..just don’t know why in the hell someone would put coarse on one side and fine on the other

BP1,
To answer your original question, I am currently using Stiller tuners. They are similar to the Harrell's, but with tighter tolerances and additional locking screws. Several guys I know are now using Stiller tuners and are very happy with them, myself included. I have had an Ezell years ago (sold it), several Harrell's (two still in use), Pro-X (in use), and my second Stiller is coming soon. Future tuner purchases will be Stiller.

I have no idea why the Pro-X has different threads on the optional brass weight. I do know the brass weight is made available to bring the weight of the tuner up to what a Harrell weighs since the Pro-X is lighter than the Harrell. I can only 'guess' that if one wanted to add weight that the MFG thought the first step for the end user would be to go to the Harrell weight first? Don't know for sure.

As you have figured out, Riverside/Harrell's weights fit the fine threaded end of the brass weight. The Pro-X can be ordered with, or without the brass weight. Without the brass weight typical weights can not be used.

There has been hundreds of pages written on forums discussing tuners and tuning. Pretty much everything under the sun has been discussed and the opinions and methods range from one extreme to the other. Since I had a few different tuners and you were asking about what people use, I threw one in no one has mentioned, and several people I know like them very much. Your Pro-X is up to the task with the proper amount of testing. I won't be selling mine, but as mentioned, my future tuner purchases will be Stiller. Good luck with your tuning.
Scott

 

[BP1]

BP1,
To answer your original question, I am currently using Stiller tuners. They are similar to the Harrell's, but with tighter tolerances and additional locking screws. Several guys I know are now using Stiller tuners and are very happy with them, myself included. I have had an Ezell years ago (sold it), several Harrell's (two still in use), Pro-X (in use), and my second Stiller is coming soon. Future tuner purchases will be Stiller.

I have no idea why the Pro-X has different threads on the optional brass weight. I do know the brass weight is made available to bring the weight of the tuner up to what a Harrell weighs since the Pro-X is lighter than the Harrell. I can only 'guess' that if one wanted to add weight that the MFG thought the first step for the end user would be to go to the Harrell weight first? Don't know for sure.

As you have figured out, Riverside/Harrell's weights fit the fine threaded end of the brass weight. The Pro-X can be ordered with, or without the brass weight. Without the brass weight typical weights can not be used.

There has been hundreds of pages written on forums discussing tuners and tuning. Pretty much everything under the sun has been discussed and the opinions and methods range from one extreme to the other. Since I had a few different tuners and you were asking about what people use, I threw one in no one has mentioned, and several people I know like them very much. Your Pro-X is up to the task with the proper amount of testing. I won't be selling mine, but as mentioned, my future tuner purchases will be Stiller. Good luck with your tuning.
Scott

Scott thank you for your time and explanation on what you have experienced on tuners.

 

[Baker]

I have an older Pro-X tuner with the coarse threads. When I bought it there were adapters available. I got mine from Clint Swigert.

 

[escopeta]

I like the Ezell PD tuner on my Rimx with Shilen #5. Other than range time and several boxes of Midas rifle shoots better with than without.

 

[Bginvestor]

The Harrel tuner has 25 clicks/stops per revolution and a total number of 500 clicks. I selected to shoot every 6 clicks. Three shot groups at each point. The points were shot on a target with 1 inch squares. Each point had a 4 square arrangement to see quadrant hits. The groups were plotted on a graph. I selected to reshoot nodes that were on point of aim. Some nodes can be seen to shoot well with small groups but they were off point of aim. Ammo was Center-X that was rim checked and a single group used. I followed up with some Tenex and the tuner repeated.

Brett, very interesting data.. do you know what the axial displacement is for one revolution of ur tuner? your data clearly shows how wide your accuracy node is..

 

[escopeta]

Only went one complete turn from zero in both directions indexing one number at a time and fired three shots all on a good day with less than 5mph variable wind at 50 yds. Found a repeatable node for my lot of Midas under .2”. I installed according to Mike Ezell directions. My barrel is short and light at 21” and .750” at the muzzle. #5 Shilen RF. Rimx with MPA chassis and Valdada 36x42 scope. As I am not a competitive shooter, it works a little better than my 1907 Anschutz with 21” barrel in a 54MS wood stock.

 

[Dub]

/\/\/\ sounds good!

 

[Brett Ritter]

Brett, very interesting data.. do you know what the axial displacement is for one revolution of ur tuner? your data clearly shows how wide your accuracy node is..

The total travel from 0-500 is equivalent to .500 inches. One revolution is .025in. I found some data online that states heavy short barrels vibrate at a faster frequency then longer lighter barrels. Now small changes on a tuner that is on a shorter heavier barrel will change at a faster rate then on longer lighter barrels.

 

[Bginvestor]

The total travel from 0-500 is equivalent to .500 inches. One revolution is .025in. I found some data online that states heavy short barrels vibrate at a faster frequency then longer lighter barrels. Now small changes on a tuner that is on a shorter heavier barrel will change at a faster rate then on longer lighter barrels.

Thank you Brett..

 

[Iggyort]

The Purdy Method will get you real close.
Ben

See above ^^^

 

[The stowaway]

Hi, only for information.
everyone has his method, most shooters test with trial and error.
Benchrest shooters can use a tuner. In some disciplines no tuner is allowed.
There you have to search for harmony using the speed of the bullet,
or to change the vibration with a weight at the mouth.

At the turning point, the pendulum speed is zero.


for the bullet this is the best moment to leave the muzzle


To measure the best moment, I built a measuring device.
(it was not easy, my hair turned gray )


So I can just check the harmony or the right moment.


Thanks for the attention.
Greetings.

 

[1Merlin]

Simply Incredible. (Said in awe and deference to your knowledge) If I might ask you... Is the research work you are showing us related to your profession?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Hi, only for information.
everyone has his method, most shooters test with trial and error.
Benchrest shooters can use a tuner. In some disciplines no tuner is allowed.
There you have to search for harmony using the speed of the bullet,
or to change the vibration with a weight at the mouth.

At the turning point, the pendulum speed is zero.
View attachment 1222024

for the bullet this is the best moment to leave the muzzle
View attachment 1222025

To measure the best moment, I built a measuring device.
(it was not easy, my hair turned gray )
View attachment 1222030

So I can just check the harmony or the right moment.
View attachment 1222031

Thanks for the attention.
Greetings.

Thank you for doing this! I agree with the principle entirely and I've preached it for years, since doing a couple of rounds of similar vibration analysis testing.

Trust me, there are those that will argue against what they are seeing with their own eyes because it's counter to what they've read or heard, elsewhere.

Tuning is not some mystical, magical thing..it's physics and it's about timing bullet exit with muzzle position for best accuracy.

If ya really want to trip some up, tell them that there's is no such thing as a "parallel node" and that bullet exit should occur at an anti-node, which is what you are showing.

 

[Bginvestor]

Hi, only for information.
everyone has his method, most shooters test with trial and error.
Benchrest shooters can use a tuner. In some disciplines no tuner is allowed.
There you have to search for harmony using the speed of the bullet,
or to change the vibration with a weight at the mouth.

At the turning point, the pendulum speed is zero.
View attachment 1222024

for the bullet this is the best moment to leave the muzzle
View attachment 1222025

To measure the best moment, I built a measuring device.
(it was not easy, my hair turned gray )
View attachment 1222030

So I can just check the harmony or the right moment.
View attachment 1222031

Thanks for the attention.
Greetings.

good job!... do you have more info on your test setup / test results?

This seems to match LS dyna analysis which shows that if you get the bullet to exit to the "left" of the first barrel harmonic or close to peak (zero velocity), you get better results. Short answer, the muzzle velocity on the "left" is less than the "right" since the barrel is accelerating and velocity is increasing with time ; therefore , reloading variability will simply produce tighter groups.

FEA Barrel Pressure Analysis on a 6PPC Rifle Barrel

 

[The stowaway]

Simply Incredible. (Said in awe and deference to your knowledge) If I might ask you... Is the research work you are showing us related to your profession?

Hello 1Merlin,
Yes a little. Sometimes I give ISSF Shooter support.



And now a little technical info and that's good.
In Germany, the benchrest scene is little.


Another example with a standard M54 barrel with slow and fast ammunition.


That's all. Many Greetings.