Rimfire Tuners

[USMCDOC]

Doc, maybe I'm confusing you with someone else..please correct me if so...but aren't you and Lee pretty close? I would've thought he might've mentioned it to you before posting it on here. Maybe not.

Either way, not much data there. Just bantering back and forth. If that's what you like..yes, it was pretty good. Drama mostly, if you're so inclined.

Bantering .. naw.. i am not into that at all.. i want to real constructive conversation of ideas with results to back up the talk from their fingers!

I think that we're about 2 thou miles apart..

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Bantering .. naw.. i am not into that at all.. i want to real constructive conversation of ideas with results to back up the talk from their fingers!

I think that we're about 2 thou miles apart..

Apparently so. Sorry.

 

[USMCDOC]

Apparently so. Sorry.

don't feel sorry.. why would you feel that way?

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Here you go. http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?102079-Tuners!!!!

Thanks Tony for posting a link
I think posting the Calfee link separately would benefit a lot of folks here Bill's insight on what he calls stopped muzzle is a good explanation on what the goal should be regardless of how you get there

Lee

TKH

 

[USMCDOC]

Meow!

 

[Tony K Harper]

Yes, you are right. I'm sure these guys really didn't need to read all the crap about turning tuners during a match.

On the other hand I'm sure no one wasted too much time on that crap anyway.

As for tuners and how they work, or don't work, will be argued forever.

I remember the first time a guy showed me how to get my .243 shooting better. He torn up a match book cover, folded it, and placed it between my barrel and forearm, and wella, it shot lights out.

Could not believe the difference it made. Of coarse the improvement didn't last forever, it was only a temporary fix, as is many of the hot spots we find on tuners.

TKH

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

don't feel sorry.. why would you feel that way?

Yes, you are right. I'm sure these guys really didn't need to read all the crap about turning tuners during a match.

On the other hand I'm sure no one wasted too much time on that crap anyway.

As for tuners and how they work, or don't work, will be argued forever.

I remember the first time a guy showed me how to get my .243 shooting better. He torn up a match book cover, folded it, and placed it between my barrel and forearm, and wella, it shot lights out.

Could not believe the difference it made. Of coarse the improvement didn't last forever, it was only a temporary fix, as is many of the hot spots we find on tuners.

TKH

Tony, I'd like to personally invite you to come by when you're down this way and can spare an hour or so. We'll spend a little time on my range and then you can have firsthand experience with how I use a tuner and why.

I've done this with several people and the results are always the same, that we both walking away better for it. With a little notice and a good measurement of your bbl od, I can have a tuner ready to slip on you rifle when you get here.

If nothing else, you can come back on here and report on what we find afterward...for better or worse. At best, you might see more clearly what I've been trying to say and it might even improve or change your view on tuning. At worst...we're both out a little time and a box or two of ammo. --Mike

p.s.---Tony, I was expecting to see your name on the list from St. Louis this weekend. I was sorry to not find it but if you had been able to make it, I'm only a short drive out of your way. Let me know if you plan to come and I'll get a tuner ready.

 

[Tony K Harper]

Tony, I'd like to personally invite you to come by when you're down this way and can spare an hour or so. We'll spend a little time on my range and then you can have firsthand experience with how I use a tuner and why.

I've done this with several people and the results are always the same, that we both walking away better for it. With a little notice and a good measurement of your bbl od, I can have a tuner ready to slip on you rifle when you get here.

If nothing else, you can come back on here and report on what we find afterward...for better or worse. At best, you might see more clearly what I've been trying to say and it might even improve or change your view on tuning. At worst...we're both out a little time and a box or two of ammo. --Mike

p.s.---Tony, I was expecting to see your name on the list from St. Louis this weekend. I was sorry to not find it but if you had been able to make it, I'm only a short drive out of your way. Let me know if you plan to come and I'll get a tuner ready.

Mike that is a very nice of you to make such an offer. I would indeed like to take you up on it. Not sure when I can but give me some time to figure out a good time for the both of us.

I'm always up for anything that will improve my results.

I've chased this tiger for a long time but that certainly doesn't mean I can't learn.

I wanted to go to St. Louis this year so bad I could taste it. But circumstances just didn't allow.

Now I see Todd shot a 2325 agg. that would have been tough to beat but I would have loved to give it a go.

TKH

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Same here Tony...but I'm sure they're enjoying the match, either way.

Just let me know...I'm about 2 hrs west of Buck Creek and only about 20 minutes from Bowling Green.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Meow!

Meow ?

Lee

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Yes, you are right. I'm sure these guys really didn't need to read all the crap about turning tuners during a match.

On the other hand I'm sure no one wasted too much time on that crap anyway.

As for tuners and how they work, or don't work, will be argued forever.

I remember the first time a guy showed me how to get my .243 shooting better. He torn up a match book cover, folded it, and placed it between my barrel and forearm, and wella, it shot lights out.

Could not believe the difference it made. Of coarse the improvement didn't last forever, it was only a temporary fix, as is many of the hot spots we find on tuners.

TKH

Tony,

What I was trying to say was that regardless of what anyone thinks about how a tuner works.
what Bill says about once set you should not have to touch the tuner again, rings true, at least for all the rifles I have set the tuner.
but this is also important he states, if the contraption(rifle) is capable. I seen this also too.

This is why that thread from Bill's site would be good for new shooters trying tuners to read.
IMO there is only one setting that will work throughout the whole range of conditions.
but finding it, for some is a bit difficult.

Lee

 

[USMCDOC]

Meow ?

Lee

At other place

 

[Tony K Harper]

Tony,

What I was trying to say was that regardless of what anyone thinks about how a tuner works.
what Bill says about once set you should not have to touch the tuner again, rings true, at least for all the rifles I have set the tuner.
but this is also important he states, if the contraption(rifle) is capable. I seen this also too.

This is why that thread from Bill's site would be good for new shooters trying tuners to read.
IMO there is only one setting that will work throughout the whole range of conditions.
but finding it, for some is a bit difficult.

Lee

Lee,

I'll be the first to admit I don't have a clue about muzzle devices and turning them for better performance due to weather changes, ammo changes, etc. etc.

I set mine when I install a new barrel and within a session or two I'm settled on the muzzle device setting. From that point on it doesn't move.

In my opinion tuning the rifle has to do with the complete contraption. It's the bedding, the trigger timing, the firing pin fall, ensuring I'm off the mechanical stop, and many other things.

If these are good, turning the tuner to a setting is my least problem. Finding consistent ammo is always a problem. I have never found a tuner setting that will make inconsistent ammo shoot well enough to be competitive. I would love to be proven wrong on this.

TKH

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Lee,

I'll be the first to admit I don't have a clue about muzzle devices and turning them for better performance due to weather changes, ammo changes, etc. etc.

I set mine when I install a new barrel and within a session or two I'm settled on the muzzle device setting. From that point on it doesn't move.

In my opinion tuning the rifle has to do with the complete contraption. It's the bedding, the trigger timing, the firing pin fall, ensuring I'm off the mechanical stop, and many other things.

If these are good, turning the tuner to a setting is my least problem. Finding consistent ammo is always a problem. I have never found a tuner setting that will make inconsistent ammo shoot well enough to be competitive. I would love to be proven wrong on this.

TKH

Tony,

You are absolutely correct it is a total package and a lot of shooters don't understand this. and ammo plays a big part as well.
I do believe when you do find a setting which can be left alone, you greatly increase the ability to weed out the inconsistent ammo very quickly. but when it is not set correctly, you will definitely be chasing your tail. lessons I learned for myself.

Lee

 

[RAVAGE88]

In my opinion tuning the rifle has to do with the complete contraption. It's the bedding, the trigger timing, the firing pin fall, ensuring I'm off the mechanical stop, and many other things.
TKH

These words could not be more true, it's the complete "system" that provides the total outcome.

Thank you Tony.

MB

 

[Brett Ritter]

Lilja 21.5in x .900 barrel with a Harrell tuner. Just mounted it on my CZ457. Range day tomorrow. Here's some barrel porn...

 

[Brett Ritter]

Lilja 21.5in x .900 barrel with a Harrell tuner. Just mounted it on my CZ457. Range day tomorrow. Here's some barrel porn...

 

[Brett Ritter]

The Harrel tuner has 25 clicks/stops per revolution and a total number of 500 clicks. I selected to shoot every 6 clicks. Three shot groups at each point. The points were shot on a target with 1 inch squares. Each point had a 4 square arrangement to see quadrant hits. The groups were plotted on a graph. I selected to reshoot nodes that were on point of aim. Some nodes can be seen to shoot well with small groups but they were off point of aim. Ammo was Center-X that was rim checked and a single group used. I followed up with some Tenex and the tuner repeated.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

The Harrel tuner has 25 clicks/stops per revolution and a total number of 500 clicks. I selected to shoot every 6 clicks. Three shot groups at each point. The points were shot on a target with 1 inch squares. Each point had a 4 square arrangement to see quadrant hits. The groups were plotted on a graph. I selected to reshoot nodes that were on point of aim. Some nodes can be seen to shoot well with small groups but they were off point of aim. Ammo was Center-X that was rim checked and a single group used. I followed up with some Tenex and the tuner repeated.

Interesting target you use. I use this target to tune with, for me I can keep track of settings as I know starting from the left it will be at 5-clicks and then go from there at 5-click intervals. rifle was a 1413 modified Harrell tuner. this rifle did a 11.86mm at Lapua with CX

 

[Lefty Trigger]

This is awesome to see because I have a Harrel's tuner for my CZ457 but could never figure it out so it just sits on my bench. I tried it several times but just couldn't decipher the results to know what I was going after.