Rimfire Ammo Lot testing question

[Slickrick0999]

Hello all,
I must admit, rimfire for me in the past has been limited to maybe balloons at 50 yards for the kids. Well...TTFreestyle has me chasing another rabbit down a hole now..

So, my question is, just how much difference do you typically see when lot testing a branded ammo? I get that one lot of brand "ABC" may be the magic beans but are other lots of "ABC" typically worse than say your 2nd in line ammo brand?

Thanks for all the help,
Rick

 

[Jr Rigsby]

Hello all,
I must admit, rimfire for me in the past has been limited to maybe balloons at 50 yards for the kids. Well...TTFreestyle has me chasing another rabbit down a hole now..

So, my question is, just how much difference do you typically see when lot testing a branded ammo? I get that one lot of brand "ABC" may be the magic beans but are other lots of "ABC" typically worse than say your 2nd in line ammo brand?

Thanks for all the help,
Rick

Yes

 

[wkdickinson]

Having just done a session of lot testing (my first), with my Anschutz 1413 at Lapua in OH, I came away with a very different understanding than I expected. I thought we would find a lot that was hands-down better than anything else - truly definitive results. That didn't happen. Ultimately, we eliminated a number of lots, finding two of the 16 tested, that performed resonably well at 50 M. Of the two, one consistantly performed better at 100 M than the other. But it wasn't OMG this amazing (best was .56 moa C to C at 100 M). I understand that maybe that's all my rifle has to give, but I was hoping for something more definative. I did buy that lot.

Would I do it again - you bet. I just think my expectations were unrealistic.

 

[Topstrap]

And next trip out that magic lot makes you shake your head. Some small variation in Mother Natures mix will mess with you.

Topstrap

 

[ttfreestyle]

Hello all,
I must admit, rimfire for me in the past has been limited to maybe balloons at 50 yards for the kids. Well...TTFreestyle has me chasing another rabbit down a hole now..

So, my question is, just how much difference do you typically see when lot testing a branded ammo? I get that one lot of brand "ABC" may be the magic beans but are other lots of "ABC" typically worse than say your 2nd in line ammo brand?

Thanks for all the help,
Rick

We aren’t chasing rabbits. We are chasing dum dum suckers

 

[VLNBYR]

Having just done a session of lot testing (my first), with my Anschutz 1413 at Lapua in OH, I came away with a very different understanding than I expected. I thought we would find a lot that was hands-down better than anything else - truly definitive results. That didn't happen. Ultimately, we eliminated a number of lots, finding two of the 16 tested, that performed resonably well at 50 M. Of the two, one consistantly performed better at 100 M than the other. But it wasn't OMG this amazing (best was .56 moa C to C at 100 M). I understand that maybe that's all my rifle has to give, but I was hoping for something more definative. I did buy that lot.

Would I do it again - you bet. I just think my expectations were unrealistic.

You wanted to buy the best lot of ammo the test center had. You did that.

 

[USMCDOC]

Having just done a session of lot testing (my first), with my Anschutz 1413 at Lapua in OH, I came away with a very different understanding than I expected. I thought we would find a lot that was hands-down better than anything else - truly definitive results. That didn't happen. Ultimately, we eliminated a number of lots, finding two of the 16 tested, that performed resonably well at 50 M. Of the two, one consistantly performed better at 100 M than the other. But it wasn't OMG this amazing (best was .56 moa C to C at 100 M). I understand that maybe that's all my rifle has to give, but I was hoping for something more definative. I did buy that lot.

Would I do it again - you bet. I just think my expectations were unrealistic.

rebarrel might be in order

 

[efoleyjr]

Hello all,
I must admit, rimfire for me in the past has been limited to maybe balloons at 50 yards for the kids. Well...TTFreestyle has me chasing another rabbit down a hole now..

So, my question is, just how much difference do you typically see when lot testing a branded ammo? I get that one lot of brand "ABC" may be the magic beans but are other lots of "ABC" typically worse than say your 2nd in line ammo brand?

Thanks for all the help,
Rick

You are not looking for a once in a life time ammo as fired in the test center fixture unless that is the same way you shoot your gun. What you are looking for is the most consistent ammo in YOUR barrel so you can go home and tune it to YOUR gun. I have found by selecting consistent ammo that shoots round groups with no shots out of the main group that it will shoot better when you tune it to your gun in the setup it it shot in. I have seen group improvements of approx. 2mm at 50M after tuning my guns that are shot out of the shoulder. Keep looking for that magic ammo, all the rest of us are but very rarely find it.

Ed

 

[moondog]

I flew to the Arizona test area last year with my RimX. Same experience as others in that I didn't find an OMG lot. But, I was able to get 3 cases of a decent lot. That is the true value in my opinion. Funny thing is I got rid of the RimX and stuck with my Vudoo. That lot shoots amazing in the Vudoo. Go figure. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Flew in in the morning, flew back that nite

 

[wkdickinson]

You are not looking for a once in a life time ammo as fired in the test center fixture unless that is the same way you shoot your gun. What you are looking for is the most consistent ammo in YOUR barrel so you can go home and tune it to YOUR gun. I have found by selecting consistent ammo that shoots round groups with no shots out of the main group that it will shoot better when you tune it to your gun in the setup it it shot in. I have seen group improvements of approx. 2mm at 50M after tuning my guns that are shot out of the shoulder. Keep looking for that magic ammo, all the rest of us are but very rarely find it.

Ed

I agree. In fact, Shane told me that in his experience, lot testing for the AMU, most rifles ultimately shoot better, when shot normally. My goal was to find the lot that performed the best/most consistently with a bare barrel. Which is what I accomplished. Now, as soon as the weather here in the UP is such that I can shoot outside, I will install my tuner and see how much better I might be able to tune it.

 

[ttfreestyle]

Slick get your airline tickets ready!!!

 

[Slickrick0999]

Slick get your airline tickets ready!!!

Probably not gonna go that far....

I'm really just trying to find one brand that will shoot average better/best than other brands in my gun.

 

[1885Winman4590]

I agree. In fact, Shane told me that in his experience, lot testing for the AMU, most rifles ultimately shoot better, when shot normally. My goal was to find the lot that performed the best/most consistently with a bare barrel. Which is what I accomplished. Now, as soon as the weather here in the UP is such that I can shoot outside, I will install my tuner and see how much better I might be able to tune it.

The weather here in the UP is going to warm up, really? Just kidding Wayne, hopefully will be mostly gone for our May matches.

 

[flatlander]

Slick - Several years ago, after building a custom 22RF rifle for myself with a Krieger bbl that I chambered with an EPS reamer and installed on a custom Stiller action, I was doing lot testing here at home with mainly SK Rifle Match & Lapua Center-X. I tested at least a dozen lots of each before finding lots I considered good enough to buy in quantity. Was able to find a couple of cases of the best lot of Rifle Match I tested - while Grafs was running a dealer special no less. But that good lot of RM wasn't nearly as impressive as how well the best lot of Center-X performed in my new rifle - that might truly have been the 'magic' lot that everyone is searching for. But due to my work schedule & needing to wait on some decent weather conditions for shooting, by the time I'd identified the really good lot of C-X, and started calling around to try to find more of it, I guess other shooters had figured out how good it was, because there was no more of it to be found at any of the wholesalers that I typically bought from. If you were privy to information concerning when each new shipment of SK/Lapua ammo arrives here in the States, it used to be an advantage, in that trying to buy test lots well after a shipment came in was almost always a waste of time - which is probably the situation I experienced with not being able to find any more of the 'magic' lot of C-X.

The thing that some have been a little slow to grasp is that paying $20+ for a box of Eley Tenex or Lapua X-Act, or RWS R-100 doesn't guarantee great accuracy - the upper end of match grade ammo is just as subject to the need to lot test as the lower grades are, no matter which brand you're looking at - even more so when you consider the financial risk of buying such expensive ammo in quantity w/o testing.

 

[Topwater]

.56 moa @ 100 m, I’d be pretty happy if my CZ would do that. We went to Marenga and didn’t have success that good.

 

[grauhanen]

.56 moa @ 100 m, I’d be pretty happy if my CZ would do that. We went to Marenga and didn’t have success that good.

That kind of ten shot group doesn't happen regularly or predictably. Often "best groups" are random acts of accuracy and the overall average performance can be very different.

Here's two examples of ten shot groups at 100. The caliper shows outside measurements, so about .5 MOA. But these are simply two outliers of a total of 57 ten shot groups shot with the same lot of ammo and the same rifle.

Overall, the 57 groups averaged 0.955" center-to-center, and that's a big difference from the two "best" groups shown.

 

[PracticalTactical]

The problem with lot testing is that you cannot do it one day and expect the same results on the next.

When the temperature changes 20 or 30 or more degrees, its a game changer.

I'd really like to see evidence that lot selection results are consistent over a wide temperature range. My guess it that would be a rarity.

Or maybe part of that lot testing effort is in establishing the temperature range under which the result is proven to be true. Then we'd need to repeat the effort to find what is best for each temperature range we tend to compete.

Many shooting sports are summer time only, but NRL22 often occurs in the dead of winter. It would be optimistic to think we can find a single 4 season brand or lot.

 

[1813benny]

PT - As a starting point, what would one consider being a "wide temperature range" for ammunition evaluation?

 

[moondog]

Here in the Rock Mountains. it can be 20* at the start of a match and 50* half way through. I see a lot of guys with extraction issues in the winter months, me included. When I got mine lot tested, BiathlonX was best. The dri lube on that eliminated winter blues! The eye opener for us out here is how much the D.A. will change drops. Solid Dope at 200 yards in the morning will send you over the top in the afternoon.

 

[PracticalTactical]

PT - As a starting point, what would one consider being a "wide temperature range" for ammunition evaluation?

Well, as I suggested, all temperatures under which each person might be competing over the full year.

I have shot matches where guys were getting heat stroke and matches in zero degrees F in the dead of winter.

Granted in zero degrees its so cold that slivering will affect our shooting, but then again, we've all seen Olympic skiing and shooting events.