Reverse engineering Hornady Lock n load press bushings

[hikfromstik]

Can someone please tell me if there is a way to go back to threads on a Hornady lock n load press . I have the iron press and love it except the bushings . They sure are handy , but they wear and and get play in-between them . Using bullet pullers really wears them faster . I tighten them up good ,but they still wiggle back if I don't watch close. I'll process 10+ RDS and notice the play ( 1/64" or more ). Does another press manufacturer make inserts with threads ?

 

[rardoin]

The Hornady LnL press insert has a 1 1/4-12tpi thread like many reloading presses. Most of these presses have a reducer bushing that converts it to accept 7/8-14 dies. I would call Redding, RCBS and Hornady and get this bushing if you want to be rid of the LnL system. I have a Rockchucker that I use with the LnL bushing for my expanding mandrels, pulling collet and other intermediate press required operations. I use another press strictly for more critical operations such as sizing; I would also consider getting another press and reserve one for these types of operations.

 

[hikfromstik]

The Hornady LnL press insert has a 1 1/4-12tpi thread like many reloading presses. Most of these presses have a reducer bushing that converts it to accept 7/8-14 dies. I would call Redding, RCBS and Hornady and get this bushing if you want to be rid of the LnL system. I have a Rockchucker that I use with the LnL bushing for my expanding mandrels, pulling collet and other intermediate press required operations. I use another press strictly for more critical operations such as sizing; I would also consider getting another press and reserve one for these types of operations.

Thank you very much . I'm considering a Forster coax or Redding big boss for a sizing press . I have no problems seating with the Hornady because it's less force , but when I'm resizing my 6.5 creedmoor I'm seeing the play . Every 15 or so pulls I will check the lock n load bushing for play . Hornady should sell or include a threaded insert with presses . The iron press is advertised as precision ( match grade ) it does great for the first 500 or so reloads , then the bushings start backing up and the play starts . The bushings are made of cheap pot metal and should be made of heavy duty steel . I bought a replacement set of 3 male and one female bushings and even one of the new male bushings has play . The rest of the iron press is high quality and with good properly working bushings has + - .001 variations . I'm gonna give Hornady a call and explain that they have a serious problem and it needs to be addressed . I understand that the bushings are a for profit part and if they offer threaded inserts then customers won't have to buy new bushings every time they buy dies ,but if they sold both it would fill the precision niche and multi-caliber niche .

 

[danny]

Don't overlook a Lee Classic Cast. I have the Forster Co-Ax and the Classic Cast. The Classic Cast is a lot of press for the money. It is a big, heavy press.

Danny

 

[Metal God]

I have the Hornady L-n-L classic press that uses there bushings and I get no movement when sizing . Now there is movement when pulling the case out of the die but the sizing has already been done . If you are seeing what I think you're seeing it has no effect on the consistency of you sized cases . There is no movement when the ram is going up or you are sizing the case , it's when the ram pulls on the bushing and the O-ring compresses that's the movement you see . If it's just that they tend to back out/turn counter clockwise a tad over many multiple sizing's . Yes mine does to , That's just the by product of having that slip fit . I just keep an eye on it and snug it up every once and awhile .

I have found the biggest obstacle to consistent case sizing ( from head to datum point ) with the Hornady press is the press flex or deflection in the handle to ram linkage . With my type you must have hard contact between shell holder and die with cam over .

Here are two pics showing the deflection I'm talking about . The first is showing the die screwed down to just make contact with the shell holder when ram is fully up . The second is sizing a 308 case with the die in that same setting . Notice the gap that appears when you put stress on the press do to the sizing process

The problem one can run into with hard contact with cam over using a standard shell holder is your shoulders get bumped back further then you want . I have found using the Redding competition shell holders completely eliminates this problem by allowing the hard contact between die and shell holder while still being able to size your cases longer ( from head to datum point ) in increments of .002 depending on the shell holder you use .

When using this method my cases are sized to with in +/- .001 of each other from head to datum point and the vast majority of them come out +/- .0005 from one another . If you are getting inconsistently sized cases . My bet is that it not the bushing system that is causing the problem .

I don't use the Iron press so all this may mean nothing but thought I'd put it out there in case it does .

 

[MGYSGT]

Are they like the Lee bushings. Does the dies screw into the bushing. If so just lock the bushing into the threaded part and screw your dies into it like you would a normal press.

 

[Mozella]

For those of you reading this thread who might consider buying a Hornady Lock N Load in the future, I'll say that mine works perfectly with absolutely no tendency for the bushings to work lose. I've loaded many tens of thousands of rounds in my press and I would say that the quick change bushings are the best feature of the press.

I'm not sure why the OP is having problems, but I can say that I am not. I load almost exclusively for 600 yd F-Class competition and the seemingly endless testing associated with match shooting. I seat my bullets with a Wilson die and arbor press, but just about all the other steps associated with reloading are done on my Hornady progressive with a DIY automatic case feeder.

Of course, I don't do the reloading procedure from start to finish in one pass for my match ammo, but I do on occasion when making AR-15 plinking ammo using the Hornady case activated powder dispenser.

Bottom line: My Hornady bushings work great, they fit as well as they did when brand new, and I like them.

 

[rijndael]

Bottom line: My Hornady bushings work great, they fit as well as they did when brand new, and I like them.

Same here.

 

[Metal God]

yep mine to , they work just fine but I do find it hard to believe you guys have never had one of your bushings work loose . I notice it most when decapping only with a universal decapper . I'll deprime 500 to 1k at a time and they aways come loose at least once in that run . Again , not an issue because every 1 or 2 hundred cases I check it and maybe it needs a very VERY little snug up and I just keep blasting away .

 

[rijndael]

By loose, do you mean LnL bushing unscrewing from the die/lock ring, or do you mean the the whole die/lockring/LnL is rotating, as if you're going to remove it?

 

[Cowtownup]

I've never had one of my LNL bushing work loose either. However, after reading Metal God's post, I'm going to look further into my resizing process. I'm seeing .002-.003 difference in the base to shoulder measurement when resizing. Now, this follows the typical bell curve scenario where I have about 3-4% of cases at the low end of the spectrum and 3-4% cases at the high end and the remainder fall in the middle. I've often wondered what causes me to have this issued when everything is loaded the same and shot in the same chamber.

 

[rijndael]

I'm seeing .002-.003 difference in the base to shoulder measurement when resizing.

FWIW: I've experienced varying amounts of shoulder bump related to differing lube amounts and brass hardening/annealing. The die and press interface is only one variable here.

 

[NWnewguy]

Don't have this press and have never seen this type of LnL system, so if this doesn't make sense than please disregard, but could you use PTFE thread tape to tighten it up a bit and prevent it from backing out?

 

[Metal God]

The die and press interface is only one variable here.

When it comes to the L-n-L classic press , press deflection is the largest factor by far . I've tested case lubes having effects on the sizing of cases and I found it to effect the size by only .0005 . If I were to manipulate case size more by case lube only I'd start getting dents in my cases .

I also found the press deflection to be more when sizing those work hardened case . When sizing a case you want the press to win not the case . That's why hard contact between die and shell holder are so important . This always means your press wins the fight .

I agree there are a few variables and is why I choose to remove what I consider to be the biggest one , "press deflection"

As far as bushing getting loose . That is the bushing backing out of the press only . My dies pretty much never come loose from the bushings . I've had the bushing work it's way all the way loose to where when the ram went up I pushed the whole die and bush assembly up and out of the press . No that has not happened many times but it absolutely has happened . I want to be clear though . These things are very rare and do not effect my ability to load very consistent ammo . At the same time because it rarely happen I can't tell you it never happens because it does for me .

 

[rijndael]

Did you test it with wax or oil lubes? I've seen far more than .0005" of bump variation with too much Imperial wax.

 

[Metal God]

I used unique ( hornady's wax type lube ) and I could get more then .0005 but that's when I started getting dents .

Don't have this press and have never seen this type of LnL system, so if this doesn't make sense than please disregard, but could you use PTFE thread tape to tighten it up a bit and prevent it from backing out?

Here is what they look like and lock into the press
BUSHING

PRESS

HOW IT ENTERS AND SLIDES DOWN

COMPARE THE BLACK DOT ON THE PRESS TO THE BLACK LINE ON THE DIE ON PICS ABOVE AND BELOW TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU NEED TO TURN THE DIE/BUSHING TO LOCK INTO PLACE

 

[hikfromstik]

Don't have this press and have never seen this type of LnL system, so if this doesn't make sense than please disregard, but could you use PTFE thread tape to tighten it up a bit and prevent it from backing out?

Its not the threads backing out, but the male and female locking system . They barely back up just enough to see a very small amount of play between the two .

 

[hikfromstik]

I have the Hornady L-n-L classic press that uses there bushings and I get no movement when sizing . Now there is movement when pulling the case out of the die but the sizing has already been done . If you are seeing what I think you're seeing it has no effect on the consistency of you sized cases . There is no movement when the ram is going up or you are sizing the case , it's when the ram pulls on the bushing and the O-ring compresses that's the movement you see . If it's just that they tend to back out/turn counter clockwise a tad over many multiple sizing's . Yes mine does to , That's just the by product of having that slip fit . I just keep an eye on it and snug it up every once and awhile .

I have found the biggest obstacle to consistent case sizing ( from head to datum point ) with the Hornady press is the press flex or deflection in the handle to ram linkage . With my type you must have hard contact between shell holder and die with cam over .

Here are two pics showing the deflection I'm talking about . The first is showing the die screwed down to just make contact with the shell holder when ram is fully up . The second is sizing a 308 case with the die in that same setting . Notice the gap that appears when you put stress on the press do to the sizing process

The problem one can run into with hard contact with cam over using a standard shell holder is your shoulders get bumped back further then you want . I have found using the Redding competition shell holders completely eliminates this problem by allowing the hard contact between die and shell holder while still being able to size your cases longer ( from head to datum point ) in increments of .002 depending on the shell holder you use .

When using this method my cases are sized to with in +/- .001 of each other from head to datum point and the vast majority of them come out +/- .0005 from one another . If you are getting inconsistently sized cases . My bet is that it not the bushing system that is causing the problem .

I don't use the Iron press so all this may mean nothing but thought I'd put it out there in case it does .

I used unique ( hornady's wax type lube ) and I could get more then .0005 but that's when I started getting dents .



Here is what they look like and lock into the press
BUSHING

PRESS

HOW IT ENTERS AND SLIDES DOWN

COMPARE THE BLACK DOT ON THE PRESS TO THE BLACK LINE ON THE DIE ON PICS ABOVE AND BELOW TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU NEED TO TURN THE DIE/BUSHING TO LOCK INTO PLACE

Very good description of how the lock n load bushing system works and high quality photos +1 . Your last photo shows where they come together after locking . That's where my movement is at . It's on the ram up stroke is where I get the movement . After I retighten it stops ,but I have to remind myself to watch or I'll get variations when I see the movement . When I get back home I'm gonna post a pic of it .

 

[Metal God]

Mine have no movement really once turned and locked in place . This is do to the rubber O-ring keeping upward tension on the bushing . I removed the O-ring and if the bushing was not fully turned I'd get up and down movement from the bushing . Is your rubber O-ring installed under the flange of the bushing as seen in my first pic ? If so maybe yours has worn out and you need another If not maybe double them up .

 

[Metal God]

They barely back up just enough to see a very small amount of play between the two

Do you just see a little space in between or are you actually seeing movement on the up stroke ?