Request of all you experienced belted case loaders

[bozo699]

I got the pictures outta order Boyd but you will figure it out
Wayne

 

[BoydAllen]

Thanks guys. I appreciate your participation. To the rest of you, I am always looking for more data. Keep it coming.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I think we need to clarify if these are custom rifle barrels or factory as well because with a custom barrel, I’m setting the headspace to virgin brass and not G-NG gauges.

 

[bozo699]

Thanks guys. I appreciate your participation. To the rest of you, I am always looking for more data. Keep it coming.

I couldn’t stand it I went back out , just about a 1/16 turn off shell holder gave me .003 shoulder bump with the setup I was using.
Wayne

 

[jepp2]

just about a 1/16 turn off shell holder gave me .003 shoulder bump

This can help

 

[std7mag]

Some FL dies for belted cases are built so that if you set them by the old touch the shell holder, lower the ram and then tighten an additional eighth to quarter turn and then tighten the lock ring instruction shoulders of fired cases are pushed way back, more than would work for decent case life. Not all are that way, but some are. My point is to measure fired and sized and come up with the difference in those measurements with your tool, not to compare the absolute numbers for the tool reading between different shooters. I want to make reloaders aware of this difference when it comes to FL Dies for belted cases. I already have some data. One friend has a .300 WM die that pushes shoulders back about .015 when adjusted as I mentioned. Another friend has a Redding Type S die for 7mm Mag that is not made that way.

I'm glad you explained that!

My measurements would more than likely be done using a 9mm casing that I have laying around.

Alas, I've been in the set the dies to the die instructions.

I'll be checking my belted casings out, since I shoot 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Weatherby & 257 Weatherby.

 

[RickKr]

This can help
View attachment 1558351

These have been my solution for graduated locking rings. I put the reference mark on the die body rather than the press.

 

[bozo699]

This can help
View attachment 1558351

Jepp2,
I can see where this could be useful. When I first got my custom .300wm I shot it a lot , it was theoated for 190 Berger’s but shoots 210’s the best. I loaded up a bunch , thst was back in 08 I think haven’t loaded for it since but I have many belted magnums and I size all the brass for .002 shoulder bump and have for years. The dies I leave set in the box with its own dedicated shell holder and s note on which press , I rarely have to change settings but I do check
Wsyne

 

[hoz53]

Often when one guy tells a new loader something, with all of the sometimes contradictory information on the internet including YouTube, it is hard for him to decide who to believe. What I am looking to get here is multiple source that will by their volume reinforce a point that needs to me made about setting FL dies for belted case. It will require the sacrifice of on old ugly case, that needs to be in fired condition. I want you to tell us what the caliber is, measure and record what the shoulder to head dimension is, and then set your FL die according to the directions that are commonly included with FL dies. Raise the ram, turn the die down until it contacts the shell holder. Lower the ram. Turn the die an additional eighth or quarter turn and then lock it down. I am trying to show by multiple examples how much shoulder bump will result. Please give us your results as replies to this thread. Thanks.

hi Boyd— i decided to try a different caliper and a differnet size die to see if there would be any differences.

sized another case with the same rcbs size die and a different caliper yielded the same fired and sized dimensions as the first so same difference—— .007

sized another case in a different size die–88 rcbs fl size die.
fired—-2.069
sized—2.0615
difference—- .0075

not much difference —. i also have a hornady gage that i had never used so i put it together on a caliper and it yielded a diff of .008 on the first rcbs die. i have one other 7rm size die and it is a redding s die FL. ill check it one of these days. all in all the measurements seem pretty consistent.

all cases 7mm Rem magnum

KH

 

[hoz53]

This can help
View attachment 1558351

hi jepp—. those marking templates would be handy to make some marked locknuts. i have long thought a thin slot cut in the die threads perpendicular to them would provide a nice adjustment mark

 

[BoydAllen]

Guys, thanks for all of your work. Keep it coming. Even though the long push back seems to be uncommon, the amount that can be done with most of these dies would result in incipient separation if the typical manufacturer's instructions were followed.

 

[philip brousseau]

Tag

 

[Homerange]

Tag

Top right you have a Watch feature that tags a thread for you.

 

[philip brousseau]

Top right you have a Watch feature that tags a thread for you.

Thanks

 

[philip brousseau]

I think we need to clarify if these are custom rifle barrels or factory as well because with a custom barrel, I’m setting the headspace to virgin brass and not G-NG gauges.

Are you cutting the belt in a separate step or have a reamer made to factory brass dimensions? I ask because I'm seeing extremely long base to shoulder lengths in custom 300 win mags.

 

[209jones]

I learned PDQ not to set any of my dies up to hit the shellholder, I switched to using a dime on top of the shellholder, work my way down the neck til I get shoulder contact and then to where I want it sized to for CBTD length. Did that after the first batch of cases, 44 or so yrs ago, it was from something I read somewhere in that period that showed how to use a pistol case to measure off the datum, think I used a cut down 38-55 case. I was having some heavy case stretch on 7RM at the time, cases lasted maybe 5 rds. It's not like it's difficult to do that way. In the case of new brass, I set it to the longest one on the first shot, then to the longest on the second shot, let whatever brass is shorter grow to that length on the first and second shot, recheck it all on the third shot and usually lock it down there.

 

[J_idaho]

The problem with belted cases is they grow up 40 thou 1st firing then if you set it back 10 thou every firing you get case head separation in about 5-7 firings. The new Peterson long brass is the best brass I’ve seen for belted cases. Some people are unaware they headspace off belt.

300 win mag
Federal brass- new-2.250”
Fired-2.2765”
Sized-2.251”
Peterson long brass
New-2.268”-2.270”

These are the factory instructions of an old hornady die and whidden. The whidden gives good instructions to bump.002”-.003”
The hornady die does give a warning at bottom not to over size. But with a belted magnum there isn’t anything to headspace off except a reference number from saami.
A warning: do not try the tape on bottom of case trick because it headspace’s off belt if not fully sized you are hitting belt not shoulder.

 

[dave@aDave]

When I first started loading my .264 Win Mag, (1967) I set the sizing die to bottom on the shell holder then another 1/8th turn. This was practically mandated by the reloading manuals. You just had to do it.
I usually had to toss the brass after the 3rd load due to split necks. This was with Winchester and Remington brass.
Then I was fortunate to meet some knowledgeable people. I now size my brass so that a stripped bold will just close with a little push. I use Neil Jones dies and and now on the 6th loading of Nosler brass and have no signs of head separation or any split necks.
P.S. Mr Jones is pretty adamant about NOT annealing. As are some of my bench rest shooting friends.

 

[BoydAllen]

The problem with belted cases is they grow up 40 thou 1st firing then if you set it back 10 thou every firing you get case head separation in about 5-7 firings. The new Peterson long brass is the best brass I’ve seen for belted cases. Some people are unaware they headspace off belt.

300 win mag
Federal brass- new-2.250”
Fired-2.2765”
Sized-2.251”
Peterson long brass
New-2.268”-2.270”

These are the factory instructions of an old hornady die and whidden. The whidden gives good instructions to bump.002”-.003”
The hornady die does give a warning at bottom not to over size. But with a belted magnum there isn’t anything to headspace off except a reference number from saami.
A warning: do not try the tape on bottom of case trick because it headspace’s off belt if not fully sized you are hitting belt not shoulder.

Since cases rarely get tight shoulder to head on their first firing, I advise shooters to adjust their FL dies to duplicate the measurement of the once fired case and then try it in the rifle. Generally, this works. If you want to get an idea of how much clearance a fired case has in the chamber, measure the OAL with one jaw of your caliper across the center of the fired primer and the other centered on the case mouth, then do the same measurement after removing the primer. If there is a crater CAREFULLY remove it with a fine file, before taking the first measurement.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

…
P.S. Mr Jones is pretty adamant about NOT annealing. As are some of my bench rest shooting friends.

True, I know BR guys who never anneal, but that does not apply to all rifles. If you have a custom chamber design matched to the exact brass you are using with a custom die matched to that chamber to minimally work the brass when sizing…then yes, I agree that annealing isn’t a good idea. The brass really doesn’t need it and will stay more consistent.

If you have a factory chamber and store shelf dies, that brass is getting worked so hard with each firing and sizing, you pretty much have to anneal if you want to get any decent lifespan from your brass.