Mark, I thaught the HS Precision stock had aluminum bedding that went the length of the action and forearm. Are the 175 burger bullets match bullets ? What powder and charge do you use. Does the savage have a lot closer talerences in the chamber, and much less freebore ? I want to get a bi-pod, is a harris a good one to buy, and what length is best ?
Remington 700 Police in 308 - How accurate are these rifle out of the box ?
- Thread starter short range
- Start date
Short range,
I'll try to keep this post on the shorter side lol. ;D
The HS stock does have a aluminum bedding block in it. How ever I handed the rifle out of the box and to my smith before I ever shot it. He has bedded other factory rifles for me and it improved my groups. So I planned on having it bedded before I ever bought it.
The 175s are the target BT long range match grade Berger. I shoot them above 44.2gr of Varget. Bullet jammed .010.
As far as chamber deminsions well it's a factory chamber. Neck Dia. is .342, or so I believe it to be my fired brass comes out at .341. So allowing for .001 spring back I'd say .342 would be right. I neck size Lapua brass with a .336 bushing so I'm working the necks .005 everytime not too bad for a factory chamber. I just had to FL size them after 5 loadings to bump the shoulder back. Cases were getting stiff to chamber. While working up loads for the berger I had pressure signs at 46.2gr. Found a accuracy node at 44.0, 44.2, and 44.4 in a ladder test at 300yrds. 44.2 seems to be the most consistent in this rifle. Also with factory chambers there are a lot of variations from chamber to chamber so this load probably want be what another likes.
Freebore I don't know those numbers. With the 175 bergers jammed .010 my coal is 2.923. They do sit way out there. The 175 smk shoots best with a .030 jump so far.
As far as bi-pods. Well I'll tell you what little experience I do have with them. I shoot with a front rest mostly. Harris has always worked great for me. I have two of them. The 6x9 works best for me when laying prone. The other is a 12x25 I think maybe 13x25. I have had it for years. I use it when still hunting whitetails. The 25" gives me good height while in the sitting position. Like I said I don't use bi-pods that much. I hunt mostly out of box blinds and portable climbing stands, and shoot off a front rest when target shooting.
Mark
I'll try to keep this post on the shorter side lol. ;D
The HS stock does have a aluminum bedding block in it. How ever I handed the rifle out of the box and to my smith before I ever shot it. He has bedded other factory rifles for me and it improved my groups. So I planned on having it bedded before I ever bought it.
The 175s are the target BT long range match grade Berger. I shoot them above 44.2gr of Varget. Bullet jammed .010.
As far as chamber deminsions well it's a factory chamber. Neck Dia. is .342, or so I believe it to be my fired brass comes out at .341. So allowing for .001 spring back I'd say .342 would be right. I neck size Lapua brass with a .336 bushing so I'm working the necks .005 everytime not too bad for a factory chamber. I just had to FL size them after 5 loadings to bump the shoulder back. Cases were getting stiff to chamber. While working up loads for the berger I had pressure signs at 46.2gr. Found a accuracy node at 44.0, 44.2, and 44.4 in a ladder test at 300yrds. 44.2 seems to be the most consistent in this rifle. Also with factory chambers there are a lot of variations from chamber to chamber so this load probably want be what another likes.
Freebore I don't know those numbers. With the 175 bergers jammed .010 my coal is 2.923. They do sit way out there. The 175 smk shoots best with a .030 jump so far.
As far as bi-pods. Well I'll tell you what little experience I do have with them. I shoot with a front rest mostly. Harris has always worked great for me. I have two of them. The 6x9 works best for me when laying prone. The other is a 12x25 I think maybe 13x25. I have had it for years. I use it when still hunting whitetails. The 25" gives me good height while in the sitting position. Like I said I don't use bi-pods that much. I hunt mostly out of box blinds and portable climbing stands, and shoot off a front rest when target shooting.
Mark
OK, maybe not all LE Departments buy things that are not available to the public, but most do, for reliablility.
http://www.remingtonle.com/index.htm
http://www.remingtonle.com/index.htm
I have a 700 PSS in 308 and it has averaged very close to 1/2 MOA for the last 10 years or so. It is really just a Remington 700 varmint barreled action that has need given a flat black finish and put in a rather cumbersome H-S Precision stock. The grip area of the stock is WAY too large in my opinion. Price, too high.
I also own two Savage 10FP's both came in the "tupperware" stocks. One is still in that stock and has averaged just over 1/2 MOA, about .1" larger than the Remington. In my opinion this is a MUCH BETTER buy for an entry into the world of 308 "police" type rifles.
I own one Savage 10FP in 223 and it is averaging about .3 MOA out to 300 yards and is winning all our club F-Class matches that are shot at 200 and 300 yards - 20 shots at each range for a combined score for the total 40 shots. The targets are a RF 100 yard center for the 200 yards and a NRA F-Class 300 yard center for 300 yards. It routinely will score a 398-24X or better shooting 69 grain SMK bullets.
I also own two Savage Long Range Precision Varmint rifles that shoot VERY WELL out to 1000 yards.
By now I bet you figured out I would recommend a Savage over a Remington - and I do.
George
I also own two Savage 10FP's both came in the "tupperware" stocks. One is still in that stock and has averaged just over 1/2 MOA, about .1" larger than the Remington. In my opinion this is a MUCH BETTER buy for an entry into the world of 308 "police" type rifles.
I own one Savage 10FP in 223 and it is averaging about .3 MOA out to 300 yards and is winning all our club F-Class matches that are shot at 200 and 300 yards - 20 shots at each range for a combined score for the total 40 shots. The targets are a RF 100 yard center for the 200 yards and a NRA F-Class 300 yard center for 300 yards. It routinely will score a 398-24X or better shooting 69 grain SMK bullets.
I also own two Savage Long Range Precision Varmint rifles that shoot VERY WELL out to 1000 yards.
By now I bet you figured out I would recommend a Savage over a Remington - and I do.
George
BTW, how many of you have shot with a SWAT "sniper"? I have a tremendous respect for what the police must face each day, but shooting is a very small part of their jobs. So do not take this as attempting to be disrespectful to them. From what I have read the average engagement distance for a police sniper is under 75 yards -please correct me if I am wrong.
I think the liability aspect (i.e. defendable in court) of a SWAT sniper's job would require a gun that is relatively factory with a relatively heavy trigger pull. An Accidental Discharge with an injury or death would be very hard to defend if one were to happen with a gun that had been modified. I think this is also the reason behind most if not all Departments using factory ammunition.
I live in central Arkansas and have found that the locals will not shoot with us at our Club matches. My suspicion is that they do not want us to see their guys doing poorly - they will probably say they do not want us to see their tactics. If one of the local SWAT guys reads this - take it as a challenge. There are no tactics reveal in laying on a shooting mat at a known distance range and shooting prone. I bet we can beat you every time at any range you choose.
We had the local SWAT team come out once and shoot pistols with us. The match was 48 falling plates shot with a pistol at ranges from 12.5 yards out to 25 yards. Their high score was a 9. The matches usually need a 48 to win and there are many, many scores over 45.
George
I think the liability aspect (i.e. defendable in court) of a SWAT sniper's job would require a gun that is relatively factory with a relatively heavy trigger pull. An Accidental Discharge with an injury or death would be very hard to defend if one were to happen with a gun that had been modified. I think this is also the reason behind most if not all Departments using factory ammunition.
I live in central Arkansas and have found that the locals will not shoot with us at our Club matches. My suspicion is that they do not want us to see their guys doing poorly - they will probably say they do not want us to see their tactics. If one of the local SWAT guys reads this - take it as a challenge. There are no tactics reveal in laying on a shooting mat at a known distance range and shooting prone. I bet we can beat you every time at any range you choose.
We had the local SWAT team come out once and shoot pistols with us. The match was 48 falling plates shot with a pistol at ranges from 12.5 yards out to 25 yards. Their high score was a 9. The matches usually need a 48 to win and there are many, many scores over 45.
George
Short Range,
The XM-3 was designed and originally made by Iron Brigade Armory http://www.deathfromafar.com/ I have heard they sell for anywhere from 6-10k depending on how they are outfitted, suppressor, night vision, etc. I would go to any of the great gunsmiths and have them build you an XM-3 clone if the XM-3 is what you want, I think you will save money and be happier with its performance.
If you read and believe an article written by Norm Chandler you will be amazed at the performance of this gun. Chandler claims the XM-3 in 308 Win beats out the 300 Win mag, he does not say in what category, but it definitely in long range shooting accuracy.
I heard that the custom shop at Remington is selling and possibly producing the XM-3, there is nothing done at IBA that the custom shop cn not do.
My two cents,
wade
The XM-3 was designed and originally made by Iron Brigade Armory http://www.deathfromafar.com/ I have heard they sell for anywhere from 6-10k depending on how they are outfitted, suppressor, night vision, etc. I would go to any of the great gunsmiths and have them build you an XM-3 clone if the XM-3 is what you want, I think you will save money and be happier with its performance.
If you read and believe an article written by Norm Chandler you will be amazed at the performance of this gun. Chandler claims the XM-3 in 308 Win beats out the 300 Win mag, he does not say in what category, but it definitely in long range shooting accuracy.
I heard that the custom shop at Remington is selling and possibly producing the XM-3, there is nothing done at IBA that the custom shop cn not do.
My two cents,
wade
Travel.
The local K9 swat in my area.
They shot Remington pss rifle pretty fairly.
and are contributing memebers of our club and have a training day once a week.
The Team sets up hostage situations using moving target at 200 yds for practice. The team members each get a chance to hit the Bad guy at 200yds.
The team also practices at 75 yds for the short shots.
They used the factory 700pss rifles and federal 168 match ammo for quite a while. After the barrels went they had a custom barrel put on at Hart rifle barrels. They now shoot the HORNADY tap ammo with Great results.
They are a great asset to our club. and are just folks like the rest of us.
I'm glad to have them because they blend right in . In the summer they pull target s for our Benchrest match each year.
Believe me THEY CAN SHOOT too.
All in all a great bunch of guys in our area.
The local K9 swat in my area.
They shot Remington pss rifle pretty fairly.
and are contributing memebers of our club and have a training day once a week.
The Team sets up hostage situations using moving target at 200 yds for practice. The team members each get a chance to hit the Bad guy at 200yds.
The team also practices at 75 yds for the short shots.
They used the factory 700pss rifles and federal 168 match ammo for quite a while. After the barrels went they had a custom barrel put on at Hart rifle barrels. They now shoot the HORNADY tap ammo with Great results.
They are a great asset to our club. and are just folks like the rest of us.
I'm glad to have them because they blend right in . In the summer they pull target s for our Benchrest match each year.
Believe me THEY CAN SHOOT too.
All in all a great bunch of guys in our area.
Thanks everyone for your input. Today I ordered a Savage 10 FCP, it will take about 2 weeks to come in, I just missed this weeks order cycle. Next comes finding the right bullet and load for that rifle, but that's part of the fun. I'll go on the reloading forum for some input.
I think you made a very good choice. I know a guy from another forum who is getting excellent accuracy from a 10fp with Federal Gold Medal Match. He says .75 MOA at 400yards, and sometimes better in better conditions. This is also the first rifle he has ever owned and has only been shooting at distance for about a year, so it will probably do better in the hands of someone more experienced.
I had a PSS. You picked a better rifle! But you know what they say about opinions.
I've shot about 150 rounds with my new Savage 10 FCP 308. After barrel break in, and coming up with a load that I'm happy with, most of my 3 shot groups have been using a bipod and no rear rest, but the 3 shot groups using both front and rear rest, have been in the 3's and the best group .246". Everything is stock on the rifle with a Leoupold 6.5 X 20 variable scope. I'm really happy with this rifle and I highly recomend it to anyone looking for this type of rifle. I'm using 168 sierra match king HP, 42.5 gr. IMR 4895, Remington 9 1/2 large rifle primers, winchester brass.
I was shooting 100 yards. I don't have a place to shoot farther, but I'm sure it will peform well at longer distances.
Looks like you made the right call.
Short Range,
You think it shoots good now. Wait until you get about 250, to 300 rnds down the tube. The barrel will really smooth out. My 10FCP is shooting .5 moa out to 400yrds. It may even hold that at 600yrds with my new front rest set up and as I am learning the wind a little better now. I have inspected my bore with a bore scope while there are still alot of reamer marks in the grooves, and the barrel does hold copper it is not hard to clean. I can get the barrel clean without even using a broze brush now. I also can put and up to now 170 rounds down the tube before accuracy starts to fall off. The rifling is very uniformed I must say. I'm surprised at it being that it's a factory barrel. Granted it not as uniformed as a custom hand lap barrel but I don't think it's really fair to compare factory barrels with the custom hand lapped barrels today. Good luck and enjoy it! I do really like mine!
Mark
You think it shoots good now. Wait until you get about 250, to 300 rnds down the tube. The barrel will really smooth out. My 10FCP is shooting .5 moa out to 400yrds. It may even hold that at 600yrds with my new front rest set up and as I am learning the wind a little better now. I have inspected my bore with a bore scope while there are still alot of reamer marks in the grooves, and the barrel does hold copper it is not hard to clean. I can get the barrel clean without even using a broze brush now. I also can put and up to now 170 rounds down the tube before accuracy starts to fall off. The rifling is very uniformed I must say. I'm surprised at it being that it's a factory barrel. Granted it not as uniformed as a custom hand lap barrel but I don't think it's really fair to compare factory barrels with the custom hand lapped barrels today. Good luck and enjoy it! I do really like mine!
Mark
Mark, that's awesome that your rifle is that accurate out to 400 yards. I think Savage does an amazing job building accurate rifles at such an affordable price. Considering the results I'm getting, I know I made the right choice. I'm sure I will enjoy shooting this rifle for a long time.
Those results will only get better! I'm at 634 rounds on my barrel now. There is hardly any throat erosion present. Maybe a little, but that's due to a few 20 round strings in 98 degree hot humid weather. I'm thinking of shooting it in a few FTR matches. I'll probably embarrasses myself but what the heck! I just want to go shooting lol!!short range said:
Mark
Mark, that's great to hear. let me know how you do if you shoot it in the FTR shoot. I think we should be able to get great accuracy for several thousand rounds, at least that's what I'm hoping. I'm hoping to find a place fairly close to me where I can shoot at least 200 yards without costing too much. I'm checking into a place that has 100,200,300 and 600 yard ranges, that I've heard I can just pay per visit. I can't afford to join there, it's over $1,000.00 per year to become a member. It was built about 90 miles west of Chicago with the promise from Chicago's Mayor Daily that they would host the Olympics there, that didn't happen, so they're charging that much to try to keep it open.
short range,
I know how you feel with club fees. I asked around about the piedmont gun club in Rutherfordton NC. I think they have 600yrds there. I was told by two reliable sources that it's a $1000 a year to join there. I'm thinking seriously of joining the Roanoke gun club at the first of the year. It is a 2 1/2 hour drive, but so is piedmont gun club and the Roanoke club in VA. is much cheaper! Roanoke does have 500yrds. There are some really good guy's that shoot at Roanoke so there is a possibilty that I could learn a lot from them! Currently I am shooting on my uncle's land that joins his mother-in-laws land. I can get out to 700yrds. How ever the terms are that all shooting must stop as deer season is nearing, and I have to respect the hunter's that have the land leased. I don't have a problem with that I'm a serious hunter myself. Also it is a cut over and the timber was cut 4 years ago. So I may get to shoot there next year but that will be it. Everything is just growing up too high to shoot, and I'm getting tired of carrying all my gear though a tick infested thicket, and running targets just to shoot! The Butner Range is only a 1 1/4 hour drive, but you can't go shoot there at will. Only during matches and maybe if you know the right ppl you could slide in and shoot, but it's a Really great range and they put on some awesome matches with some really awesome shooters there! "Another opportunity to learn a lot there". Anyway good luck to you and hope you find a range to soot your needs as I'm looking hard!!
Mark
I know how you feel with club fees. I asked around about the piedmont gun club in Rutherfordton NC. I think they have 600yrds there. I was told by two reliable sources that it's a $1000 a year to join there. I'm thinking seriously of joining the Roanoke gun club at the first of the year. It is a 2 1/2 hour drive, but so is piedmont gun club and the Roanoke club in VA. is much cheaper! Roanoke does have 500yrds. There are some really good guy's that shoot at Roanoke so there is a possibilty that I could learn a lot from them! Currently I am shooting on my uncle's land that joins his mother-in-laws land. I can get out to 700yrds. How ever the terms are that all shooting must stop as deer season is nearing, and I have to respect the hunter's that have the land leased. I don't have a problem with that I'm a serious hunter myself. Also it is a cut over and the timber was cut 4 years ago. So I may get to shoot there next year but that will be it. Everything is just growing up too high to shoot, and I'm getting tired of carrying all my gear though a tick infested thicket, and running targets just to shoot! The Butner Range is only a 1 1/4 hour drive, but you can't go shoot there at will. Only during matches and maybe if you know the right ppl you could slide in and shoot, but it's a Really great range and they put on some awesome matches with some really awesome shooters there! "Another opportunity to learn a lot there". Anyway good luck to you and hope you find a range to soot your needs as I'm looking hard!!
Mark
Mark, the price of everything is getting out of hand, it's crazy to thing we would have to pay $1000.00 to join a club to be able to shoot 500 or 600 yards. I can see that hauling all of your stuff out to the woods would be a pain in butt. I hope you can find a place that works for you also.
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