Reloading questions. Getting geared up.

[Dusty Stevens]

You should step back and read again. Get past all the stuff about your rifle and look at the rest. Get a whidden die- itll do better than the die you picked out. Send some fired cases in and see if the off the shelf die will work. If not theyll build you one. Im glad you cleared up the tolerance you quoted because you know how to measure stuff building race engines but going that far shut a lot of folks off. You can touch a micrometer and your fingerprints will throw it off farther than that. Pick a press you like- the press doesnt produce straight ammo the die does all the work. Get a fl bushing die, some bushings, an inline seater from wilson, any arbor press you like, a good scale to go along with a redding powder dispenser, a good priming tool like a 21st century, and youre set. If you spend more on nicer stuff thats on you but youd be way better served with the whidden die over the one we’ve never heard of that guarantees .0002 more runout than a whidden does

 

[HillBilly98]

To the OP. I’m not sure but I think the condensed summation of all of the comments is that it really doesn’t require to many magic pills. I have a very basic set up RCBS partner kit that was purchased many years ago. I have only added a few things like a Forester trimmer. I still use the original balance beam that came with the kit. If I’m patient I can build loads that will shoot in the high 3s. That may not be good enough for serious competition but I know folks that use little more than what JPS has in the photo above and can take it to a whole level or more.

One thing to remember is there are reloaders and then there are skilled experienced handloaders. The later takes a lot of time and experience. I am in now way questioning your ability or any ones. I think what most are saying is get the basic stuff and get started. You may very well find that you don’t enjoy the reloading aspect or fill like it is not worth doing if you are able to shoot factory loads.

Long story short if you look at what guys shooting the most accurate rigs with the most accurate loads in the world are using it is pretty much what he has pictured. As far as precision goes I would emulate those shooters (hand loaders )

 

[JFrank]

Your RPR is fine for shooting good groups and scores.
Simple tools work just as well as power tools to find the precision you speak of.
.001 tolerance such as runout is beyond my reloading skills,
.002 is more like the norm, I couldn't shoot the difference anyway.
Consistency is the key with Brass prep and weighing to the smallest increments you can afford.
Most of my tools are LE Wilson hand tools. (Extremely high quality and very simple)
I figured if Wilson doesn't make it I probably don't need it.
Once you start seating with inline seater dies you won't even measure runout anymore.
Almost every including myself person on this forum has had to re purchase (up grade) loading equipment or bought the latest and greatest only to find out it wasn't that great.
Guys here just want to help you shoot Small and not waste money.

which leads to the buy once cry once statements.
Some of the best equipment suppliers are
21st century
K&M
Widden
Harrell's
A&D fx120 scales
USA made beam scales
Wilson tools dies and gauges
Hood
AMP
Lapua
SEB
Sinclair
Lots of good people on here that always help others.
My .2 cents
Shoot Small
J

 

[MikeMcCasland]

I believe you're talking about a "Warner Tool Company" sizing die? If so, I hadn't heard of them prior to this, but their stuff looks very high-end. That said, it's a ~$600 sizing die?!?!

Link: https://warner-tool.com/collections...-die-one-caliber-complete?variant=32704528897

I'm all for the best of the best, but that's way overkill for something that very likely won't produce measurably better resized cases.

Edit: If I wanted a high-end setup, I'd get the following:
Quality single stage press
Bushing FL die (Whidden/Forster/Redding)
Maybe a mandrel expander die setup (Sinclair/21st century)
Quality comp/supported seater (Forster/Redding type)
Hand tools for primer pocket uniforming/flash hole deburing/chamfer debur
off-press primer seutp; could be hand or bench mounted.
Giraud Trimmer
FX-120i w/ auto dispenser/trickler
AMP annealer
SS tumbler
quality concentricty gauge (21st century, NECO, etc).
Headspace gauge & OAL tool (such as a Hornady or Sinclair)
Then only use the highest quality reloading components.


Really, you should probably buy a concentricty gauge first and hit those factory rounds with it. Something tells me you'll find they aren't as concentric as the standard you're trying to hit.

 

[Joel Dubose]

I have been looking into all of the brands that I'm hearing. The past post are spot on with what I've been looking at. I was warned that when I try to buy from multiple manufacturers trying to get the best of each component that they might not work well together. The custom die from Warner tool is exspensive for sure. I like what I see there despite cost. I'm definetly the type of guy that will pay the price for what I feel is best in class. Widden is definetly on the top of list. I've taken this rifle apart many times reworking everything that I can to ensure axle alignment of all the parts. Fit and finish along with Specialty Coatings like the DLC coatings from Mustang coatings are in my plans. I'm even planning on coating the dies, and components to reduce the need for lubricants during the size and processes. Mustang coatings has developed a new coating that is the slipperiest and hardest coating available on the market. Some of the very experienced Shooters in our competition or telling me that the 6 mm bullets seem to like more press fit on neck tension. I plan on playing with each variable one of the time to see what produces the best results. I am a head Porter, and power developer by trade. It requires me to be very patient and tedious with my work. From what I can tell, reloading is right up my ally. In a lot of ways I find things like this to be very relaxing.

 

[Joel Dubose]

I believe you're talking about a "Warner Tool Company" sizing die? If so, I hadn't heard of them prior to this, but their stuff looks very high-end. That said, it's a ~$600 sizing die?!?!

Link: https://warner-tool.com/collections...-die-one-caliber-complete?variant=32704528897

I'm all for the best of the best, but that's way overkill for something that very likely won't produce measurably better resized cases.

Edit: If I wanted a high-end setup, I'd get the following:
Quality single stage press
Bushing FL die (Whidden/Forster/Redding)
Maybe a mandrel expander die setup (Sinclair/21st century)
Quality comp/supported seater (Forster/Redding type)
Hand tools for primer pocket uniforming/flash hole deburing/chamfer debur
off-press primer seutp; could be hand or bench mounted.
Giraud Trimmer
FX-120i w/ auto dispenser/trickler
AMP annealer
SS tumbler
quality concentricty gauge (21st century, NECO, etc).
Headspace gauge & OAL tool (such as a Hornady or Sinclair)
Then only use the highest quality reloading components.


Really, you should probably buy a concentricty gauge first and hit those factory rounds with it. Something tells me you'll find they aren't as concentric as the standard you're trying to hit.

Agree, I'm in the process of dissecting exactly what I have and use it as a basline. I've been keeping really good records on every measurement and differences as I go. That is some sound advice I think.

 

[Joel Dubose]

I'm having trouble finding loading books with information on 6mm Creedmoore info. Can you guys take a look at your loading books to see if you have one that includes info on this ?

 

[dcali]

If I were you, I’d slow down and start with something simple. Jumping straight into custom dies before you’ve mastered the basics is a lot. It can be done, but you’re jumping into the deep end for your first swimming lesson.

I’d get one of the kits that that the big companies offers, a Lyman manual, and start with factory dies.

 

[grovey]

The "coating" doesn't seem like a good idea to me. You've been given some really good advice... how you apply it is up to you.

 

[dgeesaman]

You would be surprised how little you really need "

You might want to include a press for sizing. I'm not strong enough to operate a sizing die by hand.

It is true, most of what I use regularly fits on a small table.

It really multiplies when you buy the budget stuff and upgrade later, or when you experiment with different stuff that ultimately doesn't stay in the rotation. It also multiplies further when you consider items that add speed - like a Chargemaster.

I agree with the buy once, cry once philosophy. But you also have to learn to master the art with basic tools before getting into advanced stuff. Don't neck turn or anneal until you wear out the brass you have. When it's time to buy more brass, but Lapua and defer the neck turning and annealing until then.

Also there is nothing wrong with loading exceedingly consistent ammo for a gun of moderate precision. You might have a winning barrel - at least for what it is. Not everyone on this forum is running a tight chamber cut with their own reamers.

I agree with the RCBS RC Supreme kit recommendation. I don't use all of it anymore, but it gets you going.

David

 

[Joel Dubose]

The "coating" doesn't seem like a good idea to me. You've been given some really good advice... how you apply it is up to you.

Have you ever tried a dlc coating? Talking with a very experienced reloader question whether or not it would change the size. But I haven't really found any real life experience with it. I see where they offer coated bushings. Tin I think, but not 100%. I have no clue but my experience with it has been very good. I would give it a hundred percent on what I've seen from it in the racing community.

 

[group therapy]

Which ever sizing Die you choose custom or semi custom will be better than any store bought Die.
I believe Wilson makes the best seating Die and case gauges you'll need an Arbor press. Some measure in tensions
Regards
SPJ

 

[group therapy]

Buy once, cry once.

these are VEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRYYYYYYYY TRRRRRUUUUUUEEEEEEE words right here. try and decide RIGHT NOW!!!! how serious you are going to be about this world you have chosen, then talk to someone who has shot/shoots in your discipline that you like and shoots REALLY GOOD, LISTEN to their advice, and THEN make your decisions. oh yeah, during your journey into wisdom, if someone that goes by "guffey" chimes in, well, you'll figure it out. good luck and shoot well, there are a BUNCH of great folks on here to listen to. just not that "guffey" one (JUST KIDDING GUYS!!).

 

[group therapy]

I'm having trouble finding loading books with information on 6mm Creedmoore info. Can you guys take a look at your loading books to see if you have one that includes info on this ?

YOU CAN CALL THE POWDER MAKERS AND THEY CAN GVE YOU PLENTY OF LOAD INFO, AND ON THIS SITE (THIS SITE HAS A GREAT SEARCH ENGINE). I used to race ford fe engines( I know, sucker for punishment). and I'm all in that you want to make the best ammo you can for your rifle, custom rifles just improve and make more consistent, thats all . good luck. bryant

 

[grovey]

Have you ever tried a dlc coating? Talking with a very experienced reloader question whether or not it would change the size. But I haven't really found any real life experience with it. I see where they offer coated bushings. Tin I think, but not 100%. I have no clue but my experience with it has been very good. I would give it a hundred percent on what I've seen from it in the racing community.

No. I haven't.... though it seems to me if your coating something it's size would grow? It has too.

 

[Murray Brook]

Joel, you said that you are a race car engine builder, and I'm sure a good one. Take the same advice towards hand loading as you would give to a young man starting out in the motor building industry. I'm sure the first engine you built wasn't a 1500 HP race motor. More than likely you had to work up to something like this. I believe the same holds true in hand loading. JMO

 

[Ccrider]

I would not buy a cheap press. If you are not sure what press you want, look at the Harrell’s combo press. I don’t have one but know they make quality products and this would give you both an arbor and regular press in one option.

I have a Forster press and a 21st Century arbor press. They both work well.

Once you get started, you will better appreciate the sage advice you are getting from the guys on this site, many of whom are established world class bench rest shooters. When they all tell you that .00002 runout is not measurable and irrelevant, or words to that effect, you can take it to the bank. Or, spend 600 bucks on a die that’s marketed to be that precise with no true practical way to measure it; and even if you could, it ain’t gone show on the target.

I would go straight to the fx120 with trickler and powder thrower if money is no object. Again, buy once, cry once. It will save you time and as accurate as needed. I have the fx120 with trickler and wish I had purchased the set up with the powder throw. It would be quicker. I started with a Lee kit, then purchased a Pact scale and powder throw which I still use at times. I also have and am learning to use a Harrell’s powder throw.

Also, buy a labradar. Or buy a cheaper chronograph. I have a Pact I will sell you if you are interested. Accurate and nice but not nearly as convenient as the Labradar.

Having all of the best equipment want make you a precision reloader. The more you do, the more consistent you get. Take it slow. Neat thing is, the ride is almost as good as getting there.

 

[Joel Dubose]

No. I haven't.... though it seems to me if your coating something it's size would grow? It has too.

Not measurable amounts. We tried it in my AR bcg, and zero oil it never failed. Not a ton of rounds through it at this point but around 350 ish. It wiped clean and no wear. Running it without lube just for testing on an AR 15 was proof enough for me.

 

[marchboom]

.00002" runout? I don't even think NASA measures that close.

Seriously, if you're an engine builder then you know that the tools don't make the engine builder. Same with handloading. If that were the case I would have just bought the best equipment and produced ammo that resulted in one-hole groups. But it doesn't work that way.

As stated by other posters, don't go cheap on equipment. You'll only wind up buying the good stuff later on. And if you're new to handloading, by all means find a mentor. One who gets good results with his ammo. There is a LOT of info out there that is not in the reloading books. It only comes from experience.

Good luck.

 

[dcali]

I’ll complicate things. Cheap is fine. There are very few poorly made reloading tools on the market. Lee,
who is known for low prices, makes a bunch of very good stuff, for example. It’s not the tools. It’s the knowledge. Spend your money where it does matter - bullets, brass and rifles.

The only reloading gear I would not cheap out on are hand priming tools and ultrasonic cleaners. That’s pretty much it. And maybe not the dirt cheap Lee press. (The Lee classic cast, on the other hand is very good). Even the throwaway cheap lee powder measure has its proponents. You can make some lights out ammo with a partner press, a cheap scale, and factory dies. By lights out I mean capable of .25 MOA groups in a *good* rifle.