Reloading questions. Getting geared up.

[Joel Dubose]

Hi guys, i'm getting geared up to do reloads for a 6mm Creedmoore. I'm thinking about getting a Warren Custom sizing die. The guarantee.00002 runout on the case. Their sizing die also has shims that allows me to set the stop on the die to case holder as a positive stop instead of a cam over on the reloading press. I have about 200 once fired Hornady brass, 200 new Lapua 6mm creedmoore new brass, and some Starline brass in both small primer and large for testing. The Starline is new brass also. After speaking with Bob at Warren Custom tool, he said to just use the Lapua for consistency purposes. I need to fire some of this brass to send to him and wanted to get a bullet seater to build rounds to fire form the brass before sending it to him.
Im looking for advice here on what direction to go, to get started. I need to buy everything, so all advice is welcome. Thanks in advance for helping buy once instead of buying over and over. I'm looking for ultimate accuracy and precision. Extreme low tolerances on everything.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Why not fire some factory rounds and send them to whidden or just buy their off the shelf dies. They dont boast claims that cant be measured outside of a lab that must be in the worlds most controlled atmosphere, their dies just work and produce rounds that are the best of the best. Im sure the warren dies are nice but id put a whidden up against them any day. This isnt rocket surgery (nor is immeasurable tolerances needed).
What rifle are you loading for and what is the intended purpose?

 

[Falfan2017]

How much is the warren? Lots of folks doing well with the 75$ harrels semi custom sizer and the 50$ le wilson seater die. Bout all the precision you need.

 

[Joel Dubose]

Why not fire some factory rounds and send them to whidden or just buy their off the shelf dies. They dont boast claims that cant be measured outside of a lab that must be in the worlds most controlled atmosphere, their dies just work and produce rounds that are the best of the best. Im sure the warren dies are nice but id put a whidden up against them any day. This isnt rocket surgery (nor is immeasurable tolerances needed).
What rifle are you loading for and what is the intended purpose?

I csn easily measure that.

Why not fire some factory rounds and send them to whidden or just buy their off the shelf dies. They dont boast claims that cant be measured outside of a lab that must be in the worlds most controlled atmosphere, their dies just work and produce rounds that are the best of the best. Im sure the warren dies are nice but id put a whidden up against them any day. This isnt rocket surgery (nor is immeasurable tolerances needed).
What rifle are you loading for and what is the intended purpose?

I'm shooting a RPR 6mm CM. In factory and light class at 1000 yards. I've been doing pretty good with shooting factory Hornady match ammo. I've been buying it and Big Lots and sorting them out into groups. That's a pretty expensive route to go. I can't complain about the group sizes that I'm getting right now but when I change from lot to lot I never know what the results are going to be until I fire it. As a baseline, i'm probably going to try to reproduce that factory ammo at first, then work it from there.
In terms of measurements I don't have a problem measuring that small of increments.

 

[Joel Dubose]

I pretty much need to buy everything so I'm putting together a complete list of everything I need. From trimmers, dies and press, a powder thrower and scale, case annealer on and on. Do you guys recommend things to true up neck thickness? I've seen several ways to go about that.
Amp anealer
21 century neck turning
Dies ?
RCBS power thrower system ?
21 century hand primmer
Wilson seating die? Sinclair/ Le Wilson micrometer top?
Custom sizing die?
Redding competition die set?
I like the idea of a tri trimmer, but I wan't to be able to hold close tolerances.
Do you guys recommend primer pocket uniform tools? How about making all the flash holes the same size and deburring them?

 

[Falfan2017]

Do you know someone who is a skilled competition reloader? I'm not talking about somebody who eyeballs powder for minute of deer loads. See what they use and how they do it. This is a hands on learning curve. Also abcs of reloading is a good book to start.

This is what I'm using and mostly happy with the equipment list.

Le wilson trimmer.
Weigh powder after you throw it to .01 grains. Using the sartorius. Its overkill but I got a great deal on a used one.

I wouldn't start with an amp annealer unless money is absolutely no object. The 1300 could be better spent elsewhere.

21st century hand primer or frankford arsenal hand primer work well

Bullet comparator like Sinclair or hornady.

If you're going to neck turn a high end option is 21st cent lathe
Cheap and effective is k&m turning tool with micrometer dial
You'll also want a ball micrometer to measure necks. Honestly I don't know that turning necks will help much with a ruger precision.

Sinclair concentricity gauge

I like the harrels sizing you send them fired brass they send you a die very fast. The standard harrels die does not come with an expander ball. If you go with a different die remove the expander ball. Set your neck tension with the bushing in the die. I'd start with 3 thousands.
Also harrels ships with a tool to measure shoulder bump. If you don't have one of those you can buy one separately or use a piece of pistol brass like 9mm or 40sw.

Le wilson is also a good seating die. You don't necessarily need the micrometer version if you want to save 50 bucks just seat a bullet long, measure it with your comparator and calipers then screw in the stem by the additional length you want to seat as measured by your calipers.

If you go the wilson seater route you'll want an arbor press. K&m is good

As far as presses go people have as many opinions as there are presses. I've used rcbs parter, lee classic turret and forster coax. All will work. Forster is very convenient to change between dies. It costs more.
Harrels also makes a good combo press. Threaded and arbor in one go.

Hope this helps.

 

[jimmymac]

Hi Joel. Glad you are enthused about getting in to reloading for the purpose of making better ammo than what you can buy. The good news is that for the weapon you are loading for, you don't need really fancy reloading gear to get started. Nothing wrong with the RPR, but IMO it doesn't make sense buying the most expensive reloading equipment at this point. It will not provide you with any better target results for that weapon than a basic master reloading set from RCBS will provide.

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/937051/rcbs-rock-chucker-supreme-master-single-stage-press-kit

Add a die set from Whidden, Forster, or Redding, a dial caliper, Hornady Comparitor, a Wilson Case trimmer, a Whidden shoulder bump gauge and a couple good reloading manuals and you are good to go with a total investment of $600 to $700 for all of the above. Obviously, you'd still need bullets, powder and primers.

With the above equipment and some guidance (if possible, find a good guy that precision reloads), you'll be making far better ammunition than you can buy off the shelf. You'll be able to tailor the loads to the specific gun in regards to powder type and charge as well as bullet type and seating depth. The ability to control those things alone will help you wring the most accuracy out of your RPR.

Once you've been down this road for awhile, you will learn if reloading is for you or not. While I'm a die hard and most here are too, reloading is not for everyone. Some guys give it up, others dread it and only do it out of necessity, while others use it as a hobby and get great enjoyment out of it. In short order, you'll figure out what camp you are in. If you love it, then you can continue on with everything listed above and you'll still be fine or you can add additional tools that are nice but maybe not necessary. Guys that have been doing this over time have lots and lots of tools.

As your journey progresses, you may explore custom guns that are capable of extreme accuracy. That's where things change and at that point additional equipment comes in to play. For what you are trying to do as of this minute, things like neck turners and annealing machines are overkill in my opinion. You won't be able to shoot the difference with your gun and that money would be better spent on brass, bullets and powder.

Save yourself some money and start with the basics. You'll be happy with the results.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Hi guys, i'm getting geared up to do reloads for a 6mm Creedmoore. I'm thinking about getting a Warren Custom sizing die. The guarantee.00002 runout on the case. Their sizing die also has shims that allows me to set the stop on the die to case holder as a positive stop instead of a cam over on the reloading press. I have about 200 once fired Hornady brass, 200 new Lapua 6mm creedmoore new brass, and some Starline brass in both small primer and large for testing. The Starline is new brass also. After speaking with Bob at Warren Custom tool, he said to just use the Lapua for consistency purposes. I need to fire some of this brass to send to him and wanted to get a bullet seater to build rounds to fire form the brass before sending it to him.
Im looking for advice here on what direction to go, to get started. I need to buy everything, so all advice is welcome. Thanks in advance for helping buy once instead of buying over and over. I'm looking for ultimate accuracy and precision. Extreme low tolerances on everything.

No such thing as .00002" runout consistency. That would be completely impossible. If they guaranteed 2 one-hundred thousandths of an inch, you would just have to take their word because you wouldn't have the capability of measuring it. But again, that's not even possible. Even if they guaranteed .0002" case runout (2 ten-thousandths of an inch) they would be out of business. All brass will spring back a little so there's just no way to maintain that level of consistency no matter how perfect your die is.

More important is the runout on a case after it has been fired to determine how straight your chamber has been cut. But I wouldn't worry too much about runout. I would worry more about the groups the rifle puts on paper. Check runout on a few fired cases on a new barrel. After that you're just wasting time.

 

[jimmymac]

That back yard view is looking nice Jim.

 

[grovey]

The .00002 statement is BS. Buy a Forster FL die set, and move on. Much better mouse trap than the green box dies, cept maybe the redding comp seater. Nothing wrong with buying good stuff the first time around, but not everything custom is needed to make great ammo.

 

[grovey]

That back yard view is looking nice Jim.

Looks squatchy back there...

 

[jimmymac]

20 feet beyond the trees is my river.
South Prairie Creek!

Now I'm really jealous!

 

[Ccrider]

Buy once, cry once.

 

[Joel Dubose]

The .00002 statement is BS. Buy a Forster FL die set, and move on. Much better mouse trap than the green box dies, cept maybe the redding comp seater. Nothing wrong with buying good stuff the first time around, but not everything custom is needed to make great ammo.

It was a typo. .0002 runout.

 

[Joel Dubose]

Tough crowd in here lol. As for shooting a RPR in Factory, you do realize that i'm allowed to work on it it just has to be all Factory parts right? In today's competition I shot as well as anything out there including the heavies. I shot a 4.9" group in windy conditions. There were lots of very very expensive rifles out there that didn't shoot as well, so when I hear but it's not worth my effort to reload for the stacker rifle I don't know what you're talking about. People keep saying that to me and I take him over and show them the results and wait for a reply to why they're extremely expensive rifle with handloads and all the modern technology that can put into it without shot buy a Ruger rifle with Factory ammo.

 

[jimmymac]

Tough crowd in here lol. As for shooting a RPR in Factory, you do realize that i'm allowed to work on it it just has to be all Factory parts right? In today's competition I shot as well as anything out there including the heavies. I shot a 4.9" group in windy conditions. There were lots of very very expensive rifles out there that didn't shoot as well, so when I hear but it's not worth my effort to reload for the stacker rifle I don't know what you're talking about. People keep saying that to me and I take him over and show them the results and wait for a reply to why they're extremely expensive rifle with handloads and all the modern technology that can put into it without shot buy a Ruger rifle with Factory ammo.

You’ve had some sound advice in this thread with people genuinely trying to help you. Sounds like you already know the answers, so why bother asking questions? Good luck to you.

 

[Joel Dubose]

You’ve had some sound advice in this thread with people genuinely trying to help you. Sounds like you already know the answers, so why bother asking questions? Good luck to you.

I genuinely thank all you for answering. I don't understand. Maybe i'm misunderstanding what's being said to me. The thing that I keep seeing is that its a bad rifle, and Because it is, I don't need to build perfect ammo. It's just not my nature to think that way. I've been a professional race engine builder my whole life. 45 plus years working in a industry that requires me to have the upmost Precision in everything I do. I'm trying to treat my rifle I'll be at that it's a Ruger precision rifle and all the components in the same way. Anyone that knows me knows but I'm never satisfied with just okay.
Over the years I've been faced with very experienced people as I was growing up in the sport they would say things to me like just slap it together it'll be fine. Four years it's become a theme that is all too common, but a point of view that I've never been able to swallow. I'm not trying to tell you that I know it all, of course I don't that's why I come to you guys. My question and what I'm looking for is how do I make the most Precision cartridge possible. That's what I would like to find out. I'm trying to say this very humbly and I know that writing doesn't relay that humility very well but trust me I'm not trying to be harsh just looking for the answer to my question. How do I build the most precision cartridge that I can build and what tools do I need to make it happen. Thank you,
Humbly, Joel

 

[Dusty Stevens]

You should step back and read again. Get past all the stuff about your rifle and look at the rest. Get a whidden die- itll do better than the die you picked out. Send some fired cases in and see if the off the shelf die will work. If not theyll build you one. Im glad you cleared up the tolerance you quoted because you know how to measure stuff building race engines but going that far shut a lot of folks off. You can touch a micrometer and your fingerprints will throw it off farther than that. Pick a press you like- the press doesnt produce straight ammo the die does all the work. Get a fl bushing die, some bushings, an inline seater from wilson, any arbor press you like, a good scale to go along with a redding powder dispenser, a good priming tool like a 21st century, and youre set. If you spend more on nicer stuff thats on you but youd be way better served with the whidden die over the one we’ve never heard of that guarantees .0002 more runout than a whidden does

 

[HillBilly98]

To the OP. I’m not sure but I think the condensed summation of all of the comments is that it really doesn’t require to many magic pills. I have a very basic set up RCBS partner kit that was purchased many years ago. I have only added a few things like a Forester trimmer. I still use the original balance beam that came with the kit. If I’m patient I can build loads that will shoot in the high 3s. That may not be good enough for serious competition but I know folks that use little more than what JPS has in the photo above and can take it to a whole level or more.

One thing to remember is there are reloaders and then there are skilled experienced handloaders. The later takes a lot of time and experience. I am in now way questioning your ability or any ones. I think what most are saying is get the basic stuff and get started. You may very well find that you don’t enjoy the reloading aspect or fill like it is not worth doing if you are able to shoot factory loads.

Long story short if you look at what guys shooting the most accurate rigs with the most accurate loads in the world are using it is pretty much what he has pictured. As far as precision goes I would emulate those shooters (hand loaders )

 

[MikeMcCasland]

I believe you're talking about a "Warner Tool Company" sizing die? If so, I hadn't heard of them prior to this, but their stuff looks very high-end. That said, it's a ~$600 sizing die?!?!

Link: https://warner-tool.com/collections...-die-one-caliber-complete?variant=32704528897

I'm all for the best of the best, but that's way overkill for something that very likely won't produce measurably better resized cases.

Edit: If I wanted a high-end setup, I'd get the following:
Quality single stage press
Bushing FL die (Whidden/Forster/Redding)
Maybe a mandrel expander die setup (Sinclair/21st century)
Quality comp/supported seater (Forster/Redding type)
Hand tools for primer pocket uniforming/flash hole deburing/chamfer debur
off-press primer seutp; could be hand or bench mounted.
Giraud Trimmer
FX-120i w/ auto dispenser/trickler
AMP annealer
SS tumbler
quality concentricty gauge (21st century, NECO, etc).
Headspace gauge & OAL tool (such as a Hornady or Sinclair)
Then only use the highest quality reloading components.


Really, you should probably buy a concentricty gauge first and hit those factory rounds with it. Something tells me you'll find they aren't as concentric as the standard you're trying to hit.