RELOAD FOR FRIENDS

[Webster]

If you reload ammo for a friend and make a few bucks out of the deal does this constitute manufacturing ammunition without some kind of permit from the government? Are you legally responsible for injury or damage caused by the reloads you make?

 

[Scott Harris]

yes

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Generally, loading for other folks is a bad idea. Even if you don't charge them anything, and give them all of the components, you have liability if anything goes wrong. When I say anything, I mean even if they misuse the ammo, or ricochet one off into the distance and hurt someone.

As for licensing, I'd have to look at the BATFE regulations...

 

[tenring]

No regs about license. But anything you do can possibly be considered negligence in a court of law. If you assemble components, you are a "manufacturer" and your insurance company will not cover any accidents.

 

[CatShooter]

If you reload ammo for a friend and make a few bucks out of the deal does this constitute manufacturing ammunition without some kind of permit from the government? Are you legally responsible for injury or damage caused by the reloads you make?

I am a licensed ammunition manufacturer, and the answer is, yes, and YES!.

The first yes is a bit of a grey zone, and the ATF isn't going to after you, unless there is an accident, and the victim(s) want to get even - then it becomes a BIG YES, as they will push the ATF into acting against you.

The second one is a big YES, and there is no way out. Any problem, and you will be sued, and you will automatically loose... everything!!

And your insurance company will immediately forget your name.

Don't try to make a few bucks - get a part time job at McDonald's if you need a few bucks... and don't do it for free, cuz the legal liability is still the real 2,000 pound gorilla in the room.

 

[jlow]

General rule to live by and never break - don't let anyone shoot your reloads and don't shoot anyone else's reload or for that matter live ammo you pick up at the range.

 

[searcher]

As a retired insurance broker, having been in the business for 30 years and one who insured sporting goods stores, gun shops and ranges as part of my clientelle - heed what all prior posts say! If any ammo were to fail, be it because of a component defect, gun defect, shooter defect in not properly maintaining his gun, were the gun to fail for any reason that could be remotely contributable to the ammunition - and a serious debilitating injury were to occur - or death - you can't count on your friend waiving you from liability when the applicant's attorney comes after everyone. He will be looking out for his own welfare and that of his family first. If the widow never liked you - things will be worse. No one will be spared. Sad our system works like this but this is reality after an accident these days.

 

[M-61]

I could not agree with the above posts more. The legal complications are mind boggling.
As far as... "the widow never liked you"....you can flip that into the widow LOVING you.....from there it could get much worse!
Picking up cartridges on the range to use? Well, having been familiar with "OPERATION ELDEST SON" I would not even dream of it.

 

[Lapua40X]

Add to the list - Never:
work on anyone else's car brakes
fix anyone else's household electrical problem
adjust anyone else's garage door
the
list
has
no
end

 

[2506]

The only legal way to reload for someone is for them to have a part in the reloading process.

I would just teach them how to reload on your equipment and then charge them a little fee for the use of the equipment. ;D

 

[CatShooter]

The only legal way to reload for someone is for them to have a part in the reloading process.

I would just teach them how to reload on your equipment and then charge them a little fee for the use of the equipment. ;D

If you teach them, and you are not certified to teach it, you are liable. If you ARE certified, get insurance first.

It is best to stay out of it... just buy them a good, basic loading book.

 

[Raythemanroe]

Usually if somebody is wanting you to load for them they are not gonna benefit from it anyway, tell them to go buy some Walmart Federal prem

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Even loaning tools is a path to liability. It could be argued that the tooling was defective, and you should have known about the defect, etc. etc.

We can't all just run and hide from any liability. Instead, choose your activities well and realize that there is a down side if things go awry. That said, I can't recommend enough a personal umbrella liability policy. Note: I have yet to see a personal policy that covers products liability (ie. loaded ammunition, or components sold for profit as a business).

Just my 2 cents.

 

[CaptainMal]

Let me tell you something else I learned the hard way. It makes enemies.

Loading for others is like a welfare program. The "worthless" bums that get it will expect you to keep doing it. When they run out of ammo and you are unable to be at their demand, it gets testy. Stop doing it and they can get hostile. Rarely will you get real appreciation or really, anything good out of it.

Guide them to get their own equipment and the skills to use it.

When the student is better than the teacher, you are a good teacher. When the student depends on the teacher, you are a loser.

Cut the chord.

 

[searcher]

Busdriver is correct - Most all homeowners and renters policies do not cover "Business Pursuits". That means NO type of business for profit - and not even non-profit. A commercial policy geared for the business will. Liability limits may go up to 5 million on some commercial forms, yet an "Umbrella" or "Excess Liability" policy will add to the coverage if purchased and can often go to 10 million or more - and in essence use your commercial ("underlying") policy as your "deductible" before it kicks in for payment in the event of a claim. I've been retired for a number of years now - but I placed coverage for many gun-business related clients through a Surplus Lines Broker named "Joseph Chiarello & Co.". Those doing gunsmithing, retail gun shops, ranges, ammo manufacturing, etc. might want to look him up through their own broker for a quote. He specializes in placing coverages for the shooting sports and has (or did have) special programs unavailable elsewhere. A regular commerial policy is NOT what you want. When awards are given for a death or serious injury, the amount of the award is not based on, say, what the guy would have earned over his lifetime at current job and pay - but rather what he WOULD have made after he hit it big, went to Harvard and taken away from the high-dollar career he did not yet have. No joke.

 

[K22]

Tell this to your lawyer and he'll have a heart attack - very very bad idea.

 

[Lapua40X]

I think there is a difference between loading and selling and reloading and giving. Selling implies some sort of guarantee.

If you truly believe that I sincerely hope you never have to experience the delivery of a summons because you did someone a favor without charge. Just pick up the newspaper from your neighbor's driveway and toss in front of his front door. He expects it to be in his driveway, trips over it and breaks something. Yep; you guessed it, you're liable.
I've investigated more cases like that than I can count. Justice is blind ....

 

[bmdbmd]

The only legal way to reload for someone is for them to have a part in the reloading process.

I would just teach them how to reload on your equipment and then charge them a little fee for the use of the equipment. ;D

I am splitting the cost of a press and supplies with my roommate and another friend of ours. They will be spending time on the press and so will I. I imagine we will combine our pistol ammo loads and probably not mess with each others rifle loads.

Bad?

 

[jlow]

The legal issues set aside; I can tell you how this turned out for some of my friends.

The first and good part is it does of course save you money. The second and potentially bad part is it depends on who you and your friends are? If you are anal and your friends are happy go lucky and not as careful as you are, you are likely to end up with squibs that they reload or visa versa if the roles are changed.

Remember what it takes to be your friend is not the same as sharing ammo that might blow your gun up. Happy go lucky guys might be great to go out drinking with but would you let them drive your car – its’ a bit of the same thing. One of my friends got pretty tired of squibs from the shared reloads. The hard part is it is not always easy to know who is responsible for the squibs unless you keep the reloads separate and having squibs show up during a match will ruin your day because you cannot trust the next round that goes off and that always wondering is going to slow you up big time, and I am not even talking about your gun blowing up.

Sharing equipment, maybe…. Sharing rounds BAD IDEA… And I am not even talking about what it will do to your friendship.....

 

[Forum Boss]

This thread is now officially locked because some previous posters, in a honest effort to be helpful no doubt, are offering legal advice that is misinformed, unsound, or incomplete.

Bottom line, you are exposing yourself to liability if you load for anybody else, or give your own hand-loads to anybody else. Having a waiver signed by a third party may offer some peace of mind, but it is NOT an ironclad defense. It may not be worth the paper it is printed on. There are many ways for "waivers" or "release forms" to be defeated by a clever plaintiff's attorney (and in some jurisdictions, releases many be vitiated by effect of statute).

Yes I do have a law degree, from a premier law school, and practiced as a litigation attorney for over a decade.