Redneck annealing test for what it's worth

[Falfan2017]

After reading up on annealing I decided I wanted to play around with it with some old cheap brass I had lying around before spending 300+ on a machine. I chucked a few pieces of 30-06 rp brass that has been fired 5 times and full length sized with no annealing into my lee trim holder and into a drill.
I followed the flame directions of the giraud, getting a half inch dark blue flame and putting the brass on the light blue flame a quarter inch from the dark blue. I spun them for 7 seconds. They looked like this. I let them air cool no quenching. The necks glowed a light orange for about one second of the 7. It was dark outside so I could see the color change.
Then to see what happens with "over annealing I decided to roast one for 40 seconds or so. The neck turned bright orange and the shoulder glowed light orange.
Then to test very scientifically I tried a crush test. With a standard pair of pliers I crushed the neck of the 40 second brass the 7 second brass and a piece of un annealed brass. As I hoped the 40 second brass was quite soft and very easily crushed. The 7 second was medium crushable and the unannealed was hardest to crush. Then I tried to crush the shoulder body junction. The 40 second brass crushed quite a bit. The 7 a little bit and I was just able to dent the fresh brass a bit. Finally I tried to crush the body halfway down. None of the three even dented under pretty stiff pressure. So what's to be learned from all this?

Who knows I'm just some idiot on the internet crushing brass with pliers. However if I were to draw conclusions I'd say the "hotly" debated heat it till it glows orange then take it out of the heat after a second method does affect the softness of the brass to some degree. I would also say with long action brass you are unlikely to seriously negatively affect the strength of the body or case head during the annealing process unless you put the whole thing in the flame for way longer than anybody suggests annealing. Even the case roasted all over the neck and shoulders was still uncrushable in the middle. Next I'll try to shoot some groups annealed vs not and see what happens.

 

[rbduffer]

I love a good Redneck test. Thanks for sharing!

 

[jds holler]

I think you would have had a more accurate crush test if you had used the city guy down the road for the crushing.

Most rednecks, or redneck wimmin for that matter could easily crush the necks of those cases without the aid of pliers. The guy down the road who has a handshake like a dead fish could give a more accurate estimate of the degree of "anealness".

Other than that, you have given a very good redneck test, and I thank ya. jd

 

[STS]

What's with the pliers? A real redneck would stop drinking his beer for a second and bite the case to crush it.

 

[Webster]

View attachment 1052273 View attachment 1052274 After reading up on annealing I decided I wanted to play around with it with some old cheap brass I had lying around before spending 300+ on a machine. I chucked a few pieces of 30-06 rp brass that has been fired 5 times and full length sized with no annealing into my lee trim holder and into a drill.
I followed the flame directions of the giraud, getting a half inch dark blue flame and putting the brass on the light blue flame a quarter inch from the dark blue. I spun them for 7 seconds. They looked like this. I let them air cool no quenching. The necks glowed a light orange for about one second of the 7. It was dark outside so I could see the color change.
Then to see what happens with "over annealing I decided to roast one for 40 seconds or so. The neck turned bright orange and the shoulder glowed light orange.
Then to test very scientifically I tried a crush test. With a standard pair of pliers I crushed the neck of the 40 second brass the 7 second brass and a piece of un annealed brass. As I hoped the 40 second brass was quite soft and very easily crushed. The 7 second was medium crushable and the unannealed was hardest to crush. Then I tried to crush the shoulder body junction. The 40 second brass crushed quite a bit. The 7 a little bit and I was just able to dent the fresh brass a bit. Finally I tried to crush the body halfway down. None of the three even dented under pretty stiff pressure. So what's to be learned from all this?

Who knows I'm just some idiot on the internet crushing brass with pliers. However if I were to draw conclusions I'd say the "hotly" debated heat it till it glows orange then take it out of the heat after a second method does affect the softness of the brass to some degree. I would also say with long action brass you are unlikely to seriously negatively affect the strength of the body or case head during the annealing process unless you put the whole thing in the flame for way longer than anybody suggests annealing. Even the case roasted all over the neck and shoulders was still uncrushable in the middle. Next I'll try to shoot some groups annealed vs not and see what happens.

I would back off to 5 seconds. Bright red is about 1050F. You need some protection for some of the cases getting to hot due to variation in flame and time. At 5 sec they should be stress relieved and have some anneal. If you went 8-9 sec or had flame variation you might get some a lot softer than others in the anneal batch.

 

[Falfan2017]

I would back off to 5 seconds. Bright red is about 1050F. You need some protection for some of the cases getting to hot due to variation in flame and time. At 5 sec they should be stress relieved and have some anneal. If you went 8-9 sec or had flame variation you might get some a lot softer than others in the anneal batch.

I have some tempilaq coming in the mail so I can get a bit more precise with my temperatures and timing. Also I used the 30-06 brass because I didn't care if I destroyed a couple but I'll be annealing my lapua 6br brass which I would think would take even less time since there's a lot less material in that than a 30-06.

 

[JimSC]

What's with the pliers? A real redneck would stop drinking his beer for a second and bite the case to crush it.

mix a few cases in with the pork skins and see if he notices the difference

on the serious side where are all the blog writers on this one. Has anyone ever done a serious test on annealing on the firing line? If so I can't find it, makes me wonder if the time I spend annealing is just snake oil.

 

[260 Ravage]

I started annealing many years ago by experimenting exactly like you have. I still use the drill/spin system and a metronome for a timer. I anneal about every third firing of the brass. Keep it up, hoss!

 

[bsekf]

"Very interesting" I've been using 2 torches, a battery ratchet and deep wall socket for years. Darkened room, when the neck changes color I quench, just to stop any heat migration. Not sure if it improves accuracy, but no split necks. IMHO, the $300.00 annealer is another gismo that makes this a very expensive sport. Ya gotta really get em hot to ruin em! Gotta go weigh primers.

Bill

 

[urbanrifleman]

Gotta go weigh primers.

Bill

Epic.

 

[260 Ravage]

For those of us that use the Drill/spin technique: The size of your torch nozzle plays the biggest factor in your annealing process. I use a smallish nozzle there fore my dwell time will draw attention to most. My technique is as follows:
** Set torch with approx. 2 1/4" of center blue flame
** With case in drill/socket hold case 2" from torch orifice.
** Place flame at the neck/shoulder junction at an angle
parallel to the shoulder radius.
**spin case at very low rpm.
** Set metronome at 1 second beat interval (60 bpm)
** hold case (6 dasher) in flame for 12 seconds.
Note: I have used this same nozzle for many years. My present lot of brass is
going on it's 22nd firing so I'd guess it's been annealed by me using my
method approx. 7 times. This brass consistantly produces excellent
results. I shoot only long range benchrest. I have downloaded a metronome on my phone which can be heard very easily.

 

[260 Ravage]

BTW: I do not weigh my primers. I do sort them by depth, tho. It's amazing how the depth varies. Does it help? Hell, i don't know, but what else have I got to do!

 

[Liven The Dream]

BTW: I do not weigh my primers. I do sort them by depth, tho. It's amazing how the depth varies. Does it help? Hell, i don't know, but what else have I got to do!

Rotate the anvils on odd numbered Days. Good for those long shots.

 

[V509]

Yea it is $300 but it makes annealing the batch of brass very consistent

"Very interesting" I've been using 2 torches, a battery ratchet and deep wall socket for years. Darkened room, when the neck changes color I quench, just to stop any heat migration. Not sure if it improves accuracy, but no split necks. IMHO, the $300.00 annealer is another gismo that makes this a very expensive sport. Ya gotta really get em hot to ruin em! Gotta go weigh primers.

Bill

 

[bsekf]

Don, when you index do you put the widest anvil on top or bottom? I put it on top for >500 yds and on the bottom for the close shots?

Hadn't thought about the primer depth dimension, But i can see where uniformity would make a HUGE difference!

Just started measuring the length of 4350 kernels, I discard anything that is 10%, + or - the mean. Seems to reduce wind drift left to right but not so much right to left.

"they're coming to take me away, ho ho, they got the funniest coat, it buttons up the back, he he"

 

[Ned Ludd]

Take home message from this test: a redneck with a pair of pliers is worth a lot more than Tempilaq and hours of fiddling and testing.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Deep socket, metronome and pliers is good tools for an annealer. You may not see the difference on the line but you can measure how much good its doing. Does it help? Well if all my shoulders bump to the .001 and my seating pressure is the same on every one its not snake oil to me. Now to a guy banging steel with a factory sporter 30-06 will he ever see it on paper? No he wont but when you can see a difference in triggers then youll realize the benefit

 

[fatheeler]

thanks to all the rednecks for keeping common sense and testosterone alive and well in the good old USA both will be gone before long

 

[Holemaker]

I find no validity in this red neck test. Was the pliers used calibrated? What type of pliers, farmer, needle nose, vise grips? At what length was the pressure applied? More info needed here.

 

[jds holler]

I find no validity in this red neck test. Was the pliers used calibrated? What type of pliers, farmer, needle nose, vise grips? At what length was the pressure applied? More info needed here.

Heck, any redneck worth a dip of snuff could take his FAVORITE pair of pliers and neuter a cat. He could probably take those same pliers and tune a piano, adjust a bass plug, crack a nig--umm Brazil nut, and preform an appendectomy on his brother in law Bubba. Differentiating the neck tension of a bunch of brass would be no problem. jd