Redding Type S FL Sizing Die and shoulder bump

[Mr Underbridge]

I had a question about this die. I only want to bump my shoulder back about 0.002 or so back.
The die has the floating bushing, if I screw the die out so it only bump the shoulder back a bit will it still size the neck with the bushing part? Or do I need to get the case in the die fully to size the neck?

 

[waterfwlr]

Two separate adjustments. You won't have a problem.

 

[Mr Underbridge]

Would you mind explaining that? I cant wrap my head around the concept. If I back the die out a bit the bushing that is sitting on top of the die wont go down on the neck as much wont it?

 

[waterfwlr]

Sure. To adjust the shoulder bump you screw the die up or down. To adjust the amount of neck to be sized, you screw up or down the decapping rod part of the die. So, you would set the die to desired shoulder bump, then set the desired neck sizing with the decapping rod.

 

[Brians356]

If you adjust the bushing all the way down (engaged) you will size as much of the neck as possible with that die.

Then if you adjust the die so it applies limited setback to the shoulder, the neck will be sized to only a few thousandths less depth than it would have.

If you used a set of Redding Competition Shell Holders (as I do) to control the shoulder setback, and by trial and error find the +.008" shell holder sets the shoulder back .002", then the neck portion will be sized ~.008" shorter than otherwise.

If you feel something like max .010" shorter than otherwise neck sizing will be a problem, perhaps you should express here what your concern is, and we can address that.

 

[Mr Underbridge]

I dont want to overwork my brass, and I just want to size it enough to do some casual shooting and brass longevity.

 

[Brians356]

I dont want to overwork my brass, and I just want to size it enough to do some casual shooting and brass longevity.

There are two dimensions associated with bushing neck sizing - 1. The diameter change (controlled by the bushing I.D.) and 2. The length of neck portion resized (controlled by adjusting the bushing stem up and down.)

For most here (I think I can safely assume) the concept of "overworking" brass is not associated with the length of the resized portion of the neck. Choosing a bushing I.D. which minimizes the change in neck diameter (and usually also avoids needing to employ the neck expander button) would be considered avoiding overworking the brass (where the neck portion of the case is concerned.) The decision on how much of the neck to resize will usually be predicated on bullet seating depth considerations, or possibly perceived case self-alignment considerations, not related to brass overworking concerns.

But I could be far wrong. Others will rebuke me if I am.

 

[ridgeway]

Annealing will keep your brass in tip top shape.

If you size a fired case without a bushing, how are you seating a bullet?

Does a fired case pass through the die opening freely without a bushing? Sometimes the opening of a bushing die is not large enough to allow a fired case to pass freely without contact.

 

[Brians356]

Sometimes the opening of a bushing die is not large enough to allow a fired case to pass freely without contact.

How could the neck even reach the bushing without first making it through the opening unscathed?

The neck opening will be large enough to pass through a fired neck (assuming the rifle chamber's neck is not impossibly large) and by removing the bushing completely, the die is now essentially converted to a Redding body die, and those don't touch the neck.

 

[ridgeway]

I've had bushing dies with the hole not large enough for a fired case neck to pass through without touching either shaving it or partially sizing before hitting the bushing.

Just simply asking for trouble shooting purpose and saying it can happen SOMETIMES.

 

[chapstix97]

I use the redding type s fl bushing die, if I just bump the shoulder .001 inch below fired case, the area just below the shoulder is sized .003 inch smaller in diameter.

I have my suspicion that the redding body die will also size the area below the shoulder too, I'm just too lazy right now to get off the couch and size one case and take measurements

223 rem die

 

[hogan]

If your Redding S FL die will not process a fired case without impacting the brass when used w/o a bushing, the die is defective.

I use a .300win S/FL die to size .338/300win cases and fired .338 neck diameter brass transits the die w/o impacting, scratching, or shaving the case neck. Have used other S dies for wildcats as well. .22-250 AI for 6mm/22-250 AI, and .243win AI for .308win AI after reaming the neck diameter a few thousandths.



To use an S/FL die for shoulder bumping and neck only sizing, might consider getting a set of Skip's Die Shims; or make your own. Set your lockring (advise replace Redding lr w/Forster) to your bump dimension and then use spacer(s) under the lockring when want to just size necks.

If you have an S/FL die, you have a "body die"; or so Redding advises.

Very versatile gear.

 

[Mr Underbridge]

I want to size the neck and bump the shoulder back a bit in one operation. So I will be able to do both?

 

[bigedp51]

Mr Underbridge

Your Redding Type S FL bushing sizing die is just like any standard full length sizing die. You can adjust the die up and down to control the amount of shoulder bump.

The only difference is the bushing dies allow you to control the amount the neck is reduced in diameter.

Therefore you do "both" operations at one time or in the same operation.

Also please note if you have a off the shelf factory rifle, decreasing the neck diameter over .005 with a bushing die can induce neck runout. And to prevent this you reduce the diameter of the neck in two sizing operations with different size bushings. This is because the bushing floats and can move side to side and reducing the neck diameter excessively causes the bushing to loose its centering and also tilt.

I have better luck with off the shelf factory rifles using standard Forster full length dies that produce less neck runout when sizing in a single operation.

Two-Step Sizing and Case Neck Concentricity
by: Germán A. Salazar
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/04/reloading-two-step-sizing-and.html

Below the "The Rifleman's Journal Index of Articles" with great reloading information that the above link came from.
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/p/articles-index.html

The Forster full length benchrest dies have a high mounted expander that stays centered with the neck of the die. This expander system prevents the expander from pulling the case neck off center and inducing neck runout. Below the Co-Ax rubber washer (W-10) allows the spindle to float and self center in the case neck while it is held by the neck of the die.

 

[Mr Underbridge]

Ah thank you.
I guess I am having a cognitive disconnect since i think that raising up the die wont get the bushing on the neck fully to resizes the whole neck.

Edit: I took out my expander out of the die, I just use the bushing.

 

[AJ Walleye]

Not only am I new to reloading, but I'm also new to forums in general, so I apologize in advance Mr Underbridge if I'm changing the subject slightly. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be starting a new topic to discuss my situation, but it's related to the Redding bushing die set, so I decided to post here. Anyway, I have a Redding Type S-Match Die Set for 6BR. There's two boxes that can be checked on the outside of the box, either "Neck Die Set(which is checked)" or "Full Die Set(which isn't)". I purchased brand new Lapua brass, ran it through my neck die, and trimmed to 1.551 for uniformity, then chamfered(sp?) all cases. Redding says I may or may not want to use lube, which I decided to use. It also suggests screwing the decapping rod all the way down until it makes contact with the bushing, then back it off by 1/16 of a turn, which I did(I think), but that doesn't seem very scientific, but I think I'm close. I'm starting off by using a .267 bushing, I'm trying a few different ones as I'm in my load development phase and I just wanna see which neck tension my gun likes best. I've noticed the lube is being wiped off at different points of the neck after I run them through the die. Some cases have half the lube gone, some 1/3 of the way down the neck, and some as much as 2/3. My question is, why is it doing this? Shouldn't the lube be coming off the same amount on each neck? The only thing I can think of is either A. The neck wall thickness or neck wall diameter differs that much from top to bottom from case to case. Or B. There's something wrong with my die. C.I'm doing something wrong(most probable). Or D. This is normal. I've also noticed that when I seat my bullets, some seat harder than others, and since I know neck tension is a big part of accuracy, this doesn't seem to be a very good situation to keep everything the same. There's no rhyme or reason to it either, meaning it doesn't get progressively worse as I go along. The first one might have half the lube gone, the second one might have 2/3 gone, the third might have 1/3 gone, the fourth might have 2/3 gone, etc.. By the way, I shoot F-Class so I'm after extreme accuracy. Any thoughts on this guys?

 

[jcampbellsmith]

I dont want to overwork my brass, and I just want to size it enough to do some casual shooting and brass longevity.

Two suggestions:

Commission a custom bushing die from Whidden.
Anneal your brass on a regular basis.

Regards JCS

 

[/VH]

AJ,

If I understand correctly and I think I do, thanks to your good, detailed post; you have been sizing only new Lapua brass, so far. Once you expand the necks on that brass, either by firing or other means, your bushing will size a consistent length of the neck, provided your chamber neck and the loaded neck diameter of your cases are in sync.

Basically, in my experience, the necks of new Lapua brass are quite a bit smaller in diameter than what I size back to.

If you have a tight neck chamber, be certain your loaded rounds will fit, before you load a bunch of them.

 

[Mr Underbridge]

Well sorry guys. Looks like I wasted your time. I have Palam 95 chamber maybe that is the culprit.
My redding S bushing die is FL sizer, it did size the neck but it did not bump the shoulder back. I checked with the caliper and the hornady case gauge. I am assuming it is because of Palma 95 chamber. Time to give Whidden a call.

 

['Freak]

However far a full length size die body is adjusted into or backed out of the press determines how much of the case body’s length enters and is acted on by the die. The most it can do is when screwed down to contact the shellholder and get a touch of cam over with the ram is at the top of its stroke.


AJ
When you drop a bushing down into the die, it’ll land on a machined shoulder inside and that’s as far down as the bushing can possibly go. Turn in the de-cap/expander rod assembly until it’s stopped via contact with the topside of the bushing and then back it out a fraction of a turn. Then whilst shoving a case up into the die, the neck will contact the bottom of the bushing and shove it upwards until the bushing is stopped by wherever you left the de-cap/expander rod assembly adjusted in backing it out that fraction of a turn. The reasoning behind backing out the de-cap/expander rod assembly at least a fraction of a turn is to allow the bushing to float which allows the bushing to better center itself on the case neck.

The adjustment of the de-cap/expander rod assembly determines where the bushing will be stopped on the rise and so where it can’t possibly be shoved any higher. That’s also the point where the neck enters the bushing and the sizing begins. The further upwards the neck shoves the bushing before it actually begins to enter the bushing, less of the neck’s length ends up being sized. If you want more of the neck’s length to be sized, turn in the de-cap/expander rod assembly so it’ll stop the bushing’s upwards shove sooner, and more of the neck’s length enters the bushing. Back the de-cap/expander assembly further out to allow the bushing to be shoved higher before it’s stopped to allow less of the neck’s length to enter the bushing and be sized.

One divided by whatever the threads per inch cut onto the de-cap/expander rod assembly equals how far the rod assembly moves up or down when giving it exactly one full turn. That number times whatever fraction of a turn you put on the rod assembly equals how far the rod assembly is moved when giving it only a fraction of a turn. Express everything in decimal numbers on a cheap calculator and you can figger how far x amount of a turn changes a threaded object’s position down to the ten thousandth of an inch, or however is close enuf.