I just don't buy the argument that you cannot or should not try to resize a case neck that is .006-.010 bigger than what you want to size it to with a bushing die. I have read time after time you should only go in .003 increments, and if you go more you will have runout problems. So if you had a neck .006 larger than what it would be finished you would have to size twice to get it there. Which would be another time consuming task. Redding says their bushing dies are round and consistent. I don't think its asking too much that if you have a case that has 0 or .001 runout after firing, to be at or maybe .001 off after putting it thru a bushing die. My experience with them has been 0 runout on fired cases to .005-,006 runout after sizing in their bushing dies. I know others swear by them, but me and many others do not. Barlow
Redding: Hard to Like Sometimes
- Thread starter Phil3
- Start date
ridgeway said:
Oh boy! Did I ever run accross an issue with them. A buddy bought a nice short action Remington rifle, and had Ron Pence cut him a 6BR barrel. Ron chambered it and head spaced it (you don't get much better than Pence). Rifle shot extremely well with ammo literally thrown together in a short time. When he goes to full length size the brass the necks were destroyed. He brings them over to me for a look see, and I first thought he had the die setup wrong. Had him back the die off about .050" and try three cases. They were also destroyed. This time he brought the dies for me to look at. Hard to see in that little hole, so I set them up in a vee block and measured the necks and check for taper. They were grossly out of spec. He returns them to Fred Sinclair, and they just gave him a brand new die set. Same results on another six cases (these at the time were fairly expensive). Calls Redding to see what they think, and the guy says he has a bad chamber (B.S.!), and was very rude to him. Now he takes the rifle to Sinclair's shop, and they determin that the chamber is near perfect. They call Redding and were promptly blown off! Fred's not at all happy, and takes all the sets of Redding 6BR dies off the rack and starts running his 6BR brass thru them in a Forster press. Every stroke junkled a case. Fred calls Redding and tells them he has several junk die sets, and they still don't believe him! So Fred takes a Forster die set and makes perfect cases. Then Redding said to send them back to them for them to examin. All had the necks out of spec due to a bad reamer I guess. After almost four months they did give the guy a good die set, but was also a couple thousandths at the base undersize. Turned out that Redding made a lot more bad 6BR dies than what Fred Sinclair had in stock. While this was going on he was loaned a Forster die set, and he wanted to keep them.
A couple years later I ran across a guy that was returning a Remington PS rifle (I think it was a Remington anyway) in .308. He said the chamber was bad! Gunsmith took it out and shot it with me one afternoon using factory Remington .308 ammo. Shot like a dream! Turned out it was his cases being sized with an out of spec .308 die from Redding. Same B.S. from them. He bought a Forster .308 NM die set and never looked back
gary
CatShooter
LHSmith said:
The dies are - the cases are not. The Lapua chamber has a longer neck, but the dies are the same and will do both equally well.
I purchased some Redding 260 full length & seater dies from Sinclair. After reading the directions and setting the sizer die on my Forestor coax press, I noticed that after sizing I had little dents on the case shoulder. I had minimal lube on them. I called Redding and they said to send 5 sized cases and 5 fired cases. I asked them how long it would take to get them back. They couldn’t give me a time, because they were going to the shot show. So I went out & bought a Forestor full length and seater dies, which I should have done in the first place. I have been loading with the Forestor dies, without any problems. Case run out is excellent. Then I receive the Redding full length sizer die back from Redding, along with the 10 cases that I sent. So I set up the Redding full length sizer die and sized 4 cases. The dents were not there, but the case run out was unacceptable. I finally filed the Redding sizer die in the garbage. Lesson learned.
Gene
Gene
I bought a redding full length sizing die for the sole purpose of expanding the necks on new 6mmbr lapua brass. the knurling on the expander ball was to large. it basicly destroyed the one case i used it on. Maybe it was a mistake and i got the wrong expander. I didnt call them to see if they would right the problem on not but It has left a little sour taste. However my redding br powder measure works great.
CatShooter
I have been a user of Redding Comp dies and body dies for more years than I care to tell, and I don't mean to jump on the bash Redding bandwagon (though their boxes suck)...
... but in the past year I have had to send more dies back to Redding than in the prior 30 some years put together.
And it was for stuff that only an idiot would let out of the door. A body die cut with a chipped reamer? A body die that was cut with a damaged reamer that ripped the case to shreds... literally???
And I have a new .220 Swift Comp Seater that I will have to polish out the sliding chamber myself???
This is stuff that shouldn't come out of a bargain basement operation.
And I think it is because something is a problem up there.
This should not be happening for the kind of money they are charging.. I am more and more moving over to Forester.
... but in the past year I have had to send more dies back to Redding than in the prior 30 some years put together.
And it was for stuff that only an idiot would let out of the door. A body die cut with a chipped reamer? A body die that was cut with a damaged reamer that ripped the case to shreds... literally???
And I have a new .220 Swift Comp Seater that I will have to polish out the sliding chamber myself???
This is stuff that shouldn't come out of a bargain basement operation.
And I think it is because something is a problem up there.
This should not be happening for the kind of money they are charging.. I am more and more moving over to Forester.
Ridgeway,
I am really getting the chuckles from your posts here. K & M expanding mandrel is a "need".... sure.
I got your number. You're one of them guys who throws money at problems expecting solutions to be related to price tag. Much of shooting, once basics are met, is mental though; so whatever makes you "confident".
Still doesn't change your basic misunderstandings.
Redding makes a fine tapered size button. About $13ea. They work great for neck-up situations.
As to the Die Box problem; don't MTM still make a Die Box? I probably have 100 or more of their ctg boxes; never bought a die box though. Probably a more prompt solution than waiting for Redding to phase-in a new style.
Contempt prior to investigation, Ridgeway, is the hallmark of ignorance. If you really think that seating a bullet, sliding it actually into case neck, is gonna collapse the shoulder or any other part of a properly made cartridge case, held in alignment at neck and base, you might just gain some knowledge.
How much pressure does it take to collapse or deform a ctg case shoulder?
If loading Match Ammunition, for single loaded application; how much neck tension does the assembled round need? If the bullet is seated into the lands, the neck tension required is minimal. Could actually be a finger-pressed fit; couldn't it? A hand die like a Wilson seater or Lee Loader could be used without mechanical advantage in that situation....
Think it is the die's shoulder dimension which prevents the shoulder from deforming or "run-out" from being imparted to a previous (theoretically) "perfect" piece of brass?
Think that brass is not much stronger than Aluminum Foil? That it can deflect/distort under minimal pressures?
Loading match ammunition for my .260rem in a shortened 6.5/284 Forster die chamber is working out just fine.
Of course, you'll never KNOW what matters in the seating process until you investigate for yourself.
Throwing money at a problem in hope of a solution just leads to rationalization (because you invested so much $$! you have to be "right"...). Learning the dynamics and variables and how to control them to achieve results is what produces knowledge.
I am really getting the chuckles from your posts here. K & M expanding mandrel is a "need".... sure.
I got your number. You're one of them guys who throws money at problems expecting solutions to be related to price tag. Much of shooting, once basics are met, is mental though; so whatever makes you "confident".
Still doesn't change your basic misunderstandings.
Redding makes a fine tapered size button. About $13ea. They work great for neck-up situations.
As to the Die Box problem; don't MTM still make a Die Box? I probably have 100 or more of their ctg boxes; never bought a die box though. Probably a more prompt solution than waiting for Redding to phase-in a new style.
Contempt prior to investigation, Ridgeway, is the hallmark of ignorance. If you really think that seating a bullet, sliding it actually into case neck, is gonna collapse the shoulder or any other part of a properly made cartridge case, held in alignment at neck and base, you might just gain some knowledge.
How much pressure does it take to collapse or deform a ctg case shoulder?
If loading Match Ammunition, for single loaded application; how much neck tension does the assembled round need? If the bullet is seated into the lands, the neck tension required is minimal. Could actually be a finger-pressed fit; couldn't it? A hand die like a Wilson seater or Lee Loader could be used without mechanical advantage in that situation....
Think it is the die's shoulder dimension which prevents the shoulder from deforming or "run-out" from being imparted to a previous (theoretically) "perfect" piece of brass?
Think that brass is not much stronger than Aluminum Foil? That it can deflect/distort under minimal pressures?
Loading match ammunition for my .260rem in a shortened 6.5/284 Forster die chamber is working out just fine.
Of course, you'll never KNOW what matters in the seating process until you investigate for yourself.
Throwing money at a problem in hope of a solution just leads to rationalization (because you invested so much $$! you have to be "right"...). Learning the dynamics and variables and how to control them to achieve results is what produces knowledge.
ridgeway
Silver $$ Contributor
Hogan,
Please stop the personal attacks and spreading of total misinformation. This is not good for forum image and this type of stuff is not permitted here. This is done, period.
Please PM me if you have any beef about custom made Wilson seaters or any personal misgivings.
Please stop the personal attacks and spreading of total misinformation. This is not good for forum image and this type of stuff is not permitted here. This is done, period.
Please PM me if you have any beef about custom made Wilson seaters or any personal misgivings.
As stated in the post above this one, I did send feedback (constructive in my opinion) to Redding. That was done on May 26. It is now 8 business days later, and no response. Their response to other questions from me have been within a couple of days, so am assuming at this point Redding is not going to respond. If they do, I will post their response here.
Phil
Phil
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