Redding: Hard to Like Sometimes

[LHSmith]

The only slam I have against Redding is that unlike Forster, they won't sell die chambers for other cartridges.
One other thing, their decapping rods used in Type S dies are very breakable; like with minor pressure from a 1/4" lathe bit while the rod is chucked deeply into the spindle. Rod is crummy, but the dies are otherwise very good...

Redding catalogs more die chamberings than any other manufacturer....and you can usually find some vendor that has the oddballs in stock. They have suspended making custom dies for now due to the overwhelming demand for reloading .....whether it's temporary or not, who knows.
The decap pins are hardened and suit their intended purpose just fine....they were not designed for customers to chuck them in a lathe and try to machine them (which is not the proper method to reduce the diameter). They even give you an extra pin with each die.....what more can a company do?
I also have not had any problem using the set screw style lock ring as some have described....once set...I just give it a quick spin the last 1/4 turn and it seats itself at the same spot every time.
No slam on Forster or other reloading die makers, but my first choice will be Redding for sizers, and Wilson for seaters because they have served me well.

 

[Raythemanroe]

I plan on getting the Redding micro adj die for my 300 win build cause after reading the reviews they seem to have very little run out if any and there seater works good with the VLD's !!!!!!!!!!

 

[ridgeway]

To Ridgeway and Bozo/Wayne: Think you are mistaken about the wonderful benefits of reaming a blank die with "the reamer used on your barrel". If you look at PTG, they do sell loading die specific reamers. These reamers are of smaller dimension than chamber reamer diameters. If brass were not sized to dimension smaller than your chamber reamer then the brass would spring-back to dimension larger than your chamber was cut. Might not be a big thing if shooting a .221 fireball in a Rem 700 or other medium size action, but a 6.5/284 or WSM size chamber would have troubles. All brass would have trouble, but smaller ones would cam-in w/o much resistance...

I am not mistaken at all...my Wilson inline seater blank was cut with the same PTG reamer that was used to cut several 6 Dasher chambers. Please note in the posts above, we are talking about a seater die, not a sizer die. I'm quite aware of needing a sizer die reamer. For sizing, I've been having great success with Harrell's semi-custom Dasher and 6BR dies.

 

[hogan]

Ridgeway,

Consider this, if having "perfect" ctg case dimension matters during Bullet Seating; by having a finishing reamer cut your "custom Wilson seater chamber" instead of a die reamer, you have added .004" or more to the variance between sizer chamber and seating chamber. The LE Wilson factory cut chamber for your ctg is or would be cut to tighter dimension than you have now.

The real dimension that matters in precision scope is the sizer dimension. You want your sizer to closely replicate your chamber to .001 or maybe .0015 under. Seater can be much larger than this w/o affecting anything, as long as the Neck & Seat Stem alignment which transitions bullet into neck is concentric and straight. If it really matters, the custom die ought be the sizer; reamed to fired case dimension (eta: less .001 etc ). Seater is not a big concern.

 

[fdshuster]

hogan: "not the mic head that matters". While I agree with the majority of your statements, I do not with that one. No difference in accuracy between the micrometer top and the non-micrometer tops, but they sure are a big time saver.

When someone is loading for a multitude of 6BR chamberings ( 4, 8 twists and 3, 14 twists), each with 4 or 5 different bullets, as I am, the quickly adjustable micrometer tops make changing seating depths a matter of seconds. Freebore length's are also different, from "zero", to .050", to .080", and .104" on my chambering reamers, so there's another variable.

Settings are all recorded, no trial and error guessing involved.

I also have and use the Wilson seating dies (with Sinclair & Wilson micrometer tops), have compared ammo loaded on each with the Sinclair coincintricity runout gauge, and have never seen any difference between them, compared to using the 7/8" x 14 threaded seaters.

 

[ridgeway]

Hogan,
I respectfully disagree with your logic on the seater die and there is no way possible for a .004" variance with my custom seater cut with the chamber reamer. Not really sure you are understanding this properly. Do you have experience with custom dies? Custom made seater dies ARE made with the same reamer that chambers the barrel. Its how its done. I run a tight neck chamber and every production Dasher seater is made for no turn necks. I have several and talk about sloppy fit compared to my custom seater

As for my Harrells sizer die, it sizes my base and shoulder .001" and it makes concentric cases, no issues whatsoever.

I do agree with you on one aspect, a good sizer is the key for straight ammo. So having a good seater can only help.

 

[bozo699]

Okay fellas this whole thread has went sideways! The op was about the inadequate box the dies come in, many people say that belly aching about having a die box that will fit the dies after there set up is ridiculous and Redding shouldn't conform to our needs, I say Bull Sh** I have talked with Redding about this also and I think that getting customer feedback is the only way they may ever change, and I think that is also what a gun forum like this is all about,.." DISSCUSSION'S" Now were not talking about a Lee Die that cast $25.00 for a three die set were talking about a $250.00 dies set. Now if Dodge came out with a 1 Ton dually pickup with a 1' box on it, how many do you think they would sell? and if they did not comform and put a 8' box back on them pretty soon people would switch over to Ford and Chevy and even though there are a lot of Cummins follower's out there they would make the transition because most people need more room than that in there pick up box! Now is having the Redding box too small to house our dies the end of the world? NO!!! is it worth discussing?......ABSOLUTELY!!!!! Are the inadequate lock nuts the end of the world ,..NO!! and on dies that I don't use much I leave the factory nut's on them, on dies that I frequently use I spend the extra $5 bucks and buy a good style nut, For those of you using them for the smaller cartridges that this is not a issue on or for those of you that just don't mind screwing your dies all the way in so they will fit back in there boxes that is great too and your input and thoughts are also valuable. Am I going to stop buying Redding dies because they refuse to change there die boxes?..NO!!! would it be nice for them to at least acknowledge or at least discuss it Yes!! that's all I have to say about the subject, you all have a great day today
Wayne.

 

[SeabeeKen]

I completely agree. Same case problem with my 280. My bullets seat out long enough that the micrometer comes off the o-ring that holds it in place and I have to check the adjustment on each round. pita

 

[Phil3]

Okay fellas this whole thread has went sideways! The op was about the inadequate box the dies come in, many people say that belly aching about having a die box that will fit the dies after there set up is ridiculous and Redding shouldn't conform to our needs, I say Bull Sh** I have talked with Redding about this also and I think that getting customer feedback is the only way they may ever change, and I think that is also what a gun forum like this is all about,.." DISSCUSSION'S" Now were not talking about a Lee Die that cast $25.00 for a three die set were talking about a $250.00 dies set. Now if Dodge came out with a 1 Ton dually pickup with a 1' box on it, how many do you think they would sell? and if they did not comform and put a 8' box back on them pretty soon people would switch over to Ford and Chevy and even though there are a lot of Cummins follower's out there they would make the transition because most people need more room than that in there pick up box! Now is having the Redding box too small to house our dies the end of the world? NO!!! is it worth discussing?......ABSOLUTELY!!!!! Are the inadequate lock nuts the end of the world ,..NO!! and on dies that I don't use much I leave the factory nut's on them, on dies that I frequently use I spend the extra $5 bucks and buy a good style nut, For those of you using them for the smaller cartridges that this is not a issue on or for those of you that just don't mind screwing your dies all the way in so they will fit back in there boxes that is great too and your input and thoughts are also valuable. Am I going to stop buying Redding dies because they refuse to change there die boxes?..NO!!! would it be nice for them to at least acknowledge or at least discuss it Yes!! that's all I have to say about the subject, you all have a great day today
Wayne.

This is aligned with what I said on page 2 of this thread. I think Redding dies are a quality product. They can make them better. Hearing from us is one way to do that. It is of course their call on whether they elect to pay attention or change anything. But as I said earlier, we the customers are their lifeline, and we can make decisions that influence that. I am hopeful Redding listens to my feedback and endeavors to make a very good product even better. We'll see.

Phil

 

[hogan]

Sure understand that mic head is a time saver IF, (Big If), the seating stem is firmly locked in place and not moved. Problem with the Redding Mic Precision seater is the stem adjusts and the only way it locks is the small lock nut. Have never owned one of their standard seater accessory mic heads, but iirc those seating stems don't adjust.

IF you have a fixed length seating stem on a mic-head, then you have absolute repeatability. That is a very worthwhile goal. Maybe with 2 locking nuts on a mic seat stem and an index mark done with nail polish or something the die would be satisfactory. I just chose to use Benchrest seaters instead. There is always the option of using Skip's Die Spacers to setup the die for different depths OR make a dummy round for each separate rifle being loaded for and adjust the seat stem each time....


As to Ridgeway with the chambering finish reamer custom die. Maybe .004" is a bit exagerated, but there is no denying that a chamber reamer is of Larger Overall Diameter than a Die Reamer, unless your chamber reamer was Custom Ground to be even tighter than the Die Reamer... Yet, that makes No Sense...

If you use a standard sizing die and your seating die is of tighter diameter, your seater would be sizing every case as it seats the bullet and that is a bunch of trouble! Can press cases into your seater with only mild finger pressure? Then your die is of several thousandths larger dimension than your sizer.

Seater die reamed with larger diameter finishing reamer works fine. Only critical relationship for bullet seating is neck and seater stem alignment and support. I use a 6.5x284 Forster benchrest seater for .260rem. It works fine even though the shoulder is different and the neck is longer. Did have to trim the die body by .25" to shorten it though. Seater depends on neck alignment and stable base which shellholder in press ram provides.

 

[ridgeway]

As to Ridgeway with the chambering finish reamer custom die. Maybe .004" is a bit exagerated, but there is no denying that a chamber reamer is of Larger Overall Diameter than a Die Reamer, unless your chamber reamer was Custom Ground to be even tighter than the Die Reamer... Yet, that makes No Sense...

If you use a standard sizing die and your seating die is of tighter diameter, your seater would be sizing every case as it seats the bullet and that is a bunch of trouble! Can press cases into your seater with only mild finger pressure? Then your die is of several thousandths larger dimension than your sizer.

Seater die reamed with larger diameter finishing reamer works fine. Only critical relationship for bullet seating is neck and seater stem alignment and support. I use a 6.5x284 Forster benchrest seater for .260rem. It works fine even though the shoulder is different and the neck is longer. Did have to trim the die body by .25" to shorten it though. Seater depends on neck alignment and stable base which shellholder in press ram provides.

No, No, you are totally missing the entire concept. I am NOT comparing a chamber reamer vs sizer die reamer. My chamber is a 6 Dasher and I have a PTG chamber reamer that was used to chamber a couple barrels and chamber the Wilson seater blank. Both the chamber and seater die pretty much share the same dimensions other than possible headspace distance. I size all my brass on a Harrells die, which pulls the shoulder down .0015" and the base .0005"(sizing dimensions in my other post were not right). Now, that sized piece of brass will fit my chamber and my SIZER. No sizing, crushing or distorting of my brass whatsoever by my seater die and freely inserted with my fingers. I'm sure the smith makes sure there is enough headspace(couple thousands) in the seater die so my shoulder isn't being touched. Once I seat a bullet, the brass/die fits like a glove. A non-sized case would not fit in my seater die, but would fit in a standard Wilson chambered seater. The main reason I went with a custom seater die is to give support for a tight neck chamber.

 

[hogan]

Not really sure why you need "support for tight-neck" in your seating die?

Not like the support is an issue. The neck measures something like .266/.265? Your bullets are .243 +/- and the neck ID after sizing is .242/.241?? Maybe you turn necks much closer, but same difference; it is the neck ID/bullet ogive OD that matters. The brass does not take any additional vertical pressure during seating once the bullet has entered the neck. Pressure is only needed to overcome neck diameter resistance to the bullet. There is friction on the neck wall as the bullet is transited into place, but no linear force that could deform the shoulder or body.

If seater neck were too tight, then case deformation could occur, same way if neck is too tight in chamber upon firing it will raise pressures, maybe dangerously. If neck is too tight to easily accept bullet on seating, or release it freely when chambered & fired; then there are problems.

What I understand is that using a sizer die that bumps oal from base to datum line .0015 & also swages the case so the base is sized 5 ten-thousandths seems to me to be a lot more brass working than typical precision loader would seek to accomplish with every firing. Maybe necessary for competition, to assure bolt cycling? Not necessary for benchrest though.

Not to be obtuse, but case only needs partial support in the neck and base to keep concentric.

 

[bozo699]

Not really sure why you need "support for tight-neck" in your seating die?

Not like the support is an issue. The neck measures something like .266/.265? Your bullets are .243 +/- and the neck ID after sizing is .242/.241?? Maybe you turn necks much closer, but same difference; it is the neck ID/bullet ogive OD that matters. The brass does not take any additional vertical pressure during seating once the bullet has entered the neck. Pressure is only needed to overcome neck diameter resistance to the bullet. There is friction on the neck wall as the bullet is transited into place, but no linear force that could deform the shoulder or body.

If seater neck were too tight, then case deformation could occur, same way if neck is too tight in chamber upon firing it will raise pressures, maybe dangerously. If neck is too tight to easily accept bullet on seating, or release it freely when chambered & fired; then there are problems.

What I understand is that using a sizer die that bumps oal from base to datum line .0015 & also swages the case so the base is sized 5 ten-thousandths seems to me to be a lot more brass working than typical precision loader would seek to accomplish with every firing. Maybe necessary for competition, to assure bolt cycling? Not necessary for benchrest though.

Not to be obtuse, but case only needs partial support in the neck and base to keep concentric.

Just trying to figure this all out, were discussing peice of S*** redding die boxes, and all this talk about who makes the best seating dies has what to do with Redding die boxes?.....I agree with your concept on sizing dies, don't realling agree with you on the seating dies but it doesn't really matter, what does any of that have to do with the fact that the Redding die box is say 3" long and the competition seating die when adjusted to use is 4" long so it won't fit in the $.02 plastic box they provide!
Wayne.

 

[D-mon]

Hi guys,
I feel like an Alien with my red hornady die boxes here
No body talked about that brand, their dies or their boxes.
I like them. There is plenty of space in them.
I usually buy a full length die and a seater from hornady and then a type-s neck die from redding for each caliber. I am not shooting benchrest but I get decent accuracy with that type of set up.

Nic

 

[ridgeway]

Not really sure why you need "support for tight-neck" in your seating die?

Because I can and it plain works.

I am done discussing the seater die subject...its clear that you really don't understand what is going on. Please stick with the OP subject.

People have been complaining about Redding boxes for quite some time. You would think Redding would listen and atleast add a larger box as an option?

 

[bozo699]

Not really sure why you need "support for tight-neck" in your seating die?

Because I can and it plain works.

I am done discussing the seater die subject...its clear that you really don't understand what is going on. Please stick with the OP subject.

People have been complaining about Redding boxes for quite some time. You would think Redding would listen and atleast add a larger box as an option?

I agree 100%
Wayne.

 

[Lazydays]

Hi Mike,

See http://www.sniperforums.com/forum/cartridges-calibers/33083-bullet-seating-dies-redding-vs-forster.html. L

Let me know if your Redding case is like the one shown. I think the issue is with the Forster Co-Ax press I use. The writer in the above link used a Co-Ax. Notice where the lock ring is. Far down on the die body. That positioning makes it impossible to fit the lock ring into the Redding case slots without the mic head hanging outside the box. You can see how the die will fit, IF the lock ring is further up the die. But, doing that requires backing off the mic head for the same bullet seating depth, so that won't help.

To answer your question, yes, the sliding sleeve was 99% compressed before securing the lock ring. Is your Redding box like the one in the link and where is your lock ring on the die?

Phil

what you can do: Goto a cigar store and look thru the empty boxes for something close to fitting your needs made from solid wood. Then all you need to do is glue in a couple blocks to hold the dies in place. Nice thing about wood is that the box dosn't sweat like plastic, and your investment might be a couple dollars. I keep all my precision tools in cigar boxes as well.
gary

 

[aj300mag]

How hard is it to write down the numbers off the mic head on a seater die in your reloading log, turn the thimble back down to zero and then place the die back into its original box?


I'll bet some of you would be totally confused if you attempted to use target turrets...

 

[Phil3]

Not hard at all. But why should I have to? Or as the other person said, go to the trouble of getting a cigar box, and making my own case. Is it REALLY too much to ask that die, once adjusted fit back into its case. Apparently for Redding, it very well may be.

 

[aj300mag]

Are you willing to front Redding the cost of engineering design and building new injection mold dies?

Because you don't want to...