Redding: Hard to Like Sometimes

[Phil3]

If I understand this tread correctly, some of you think that a company should engineer their die storage box to be more accommodating when used with other competitors equipment (Specifically one reloading press of non-standard design)? Shirley you can't be serious?

The answer to your question depends on what your business goals are, internal costs, risks, etc. For instance, Redding could not realistically come out with a proprietary die thread even if fit their own press. They could not do this because their dies are used in a plenty of non-Redding presses, including Forster and a proprietary thread would kill sales. Redding needs to sell products that are compatible with other products and industry standard (i.e., die thread). They simply have elected to not accommodate the Forster Co-Ax press with regards to the die box and also their Instant Indicator (verified by Redding to me that it will not fit). These are Redding's decisions, but they do have consequences, called lost sales. My Redding dies are going up for sale as soon as I can get my hands on the backordered Forster set.

Phil

 

[MarkS]

Phil,

For the cost of the Comp dies. you can get a Arbor press and Wilson seater. For any new cal I get a Redding F/L S bushing and a Wilson seater.

Mark Schronce

 

[Phil3]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your comment. I have not been able to find any conclusive evidence that the Arbor Press and Wilson seater do any better than the micrometer seater dies. See

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/09/reloading-seating-die-runout.html

The Forster press I have allows the die to float in a horizontal plane and the cartridge to do the same in the shell holder jaws, thereby allowing more alignment straightening than a conventional press. Whether than will actually help or not, I can't say.

Phil

 

[Cleftwynd]

I would be using nothing but Wilson dies except for one thing, they almost never make them in calibers I own!

As others have stated, the redding boxes do suck, instead of turning down the mics I just remove the assembly now. Quick and easy to reassemble and still set up that way.

I now use an odd mix of dies for each caliber, redding body die, forster or Wilson seater, lee collet, and either redding or forster FL depending on where I bought the dies, and what set they came with. Pretty much all RCBS carbide for pistol dies.

Don't shoot me, but I even have some Lyman dies that I prefer over the rest for concentricity!!

 

[nosualc]

Phil3,

If this is really such a big deal to you, stop buying Redding products.

If enough people feel the same way, Redding will change or go out of business.

If not, Redding will have one less squeaky customer and you'll have one less thing to squeak about.

-nosualc

ps - Yes, their case could be better. I just don't think it's worthy of much drama.

 

[Phil3]

Nosulac,

I have pretty much already said in previous posts what you have said here. Yes, of course, I can stop buying Redding products, and do plan to sell the seater. I bought the Redding seater because I had no knowledge, much less any expectation of the die not fitting back into the case when adjusted. Their case is just one of several things I mentioned, and I forgot to add their rings which are of an inferior design compared to Forster.

Phil

 

[aj300mag]

Dang I must be doing something wrong. I've loaded concentric match ammo (F-Class & Benchrest) with both Redding and Wilson dies. The only difference is that instead of complaining about box design on the innanet I figure out what needs to be done to put out good ammo... YMMV

 

[nosualc]

Nosulac,

I have pretty much already said in previous posts what you have said here. Yes, of course, I can stop buying Redding products, and do plan to sell the seater. I bought the Redding seater because I had no knowledge, much less any expectation of the die not fitting back into the case when adjusted. Their case is just one of several things I mentioned, and I forgot to add their rings which are of an inferior design compared to Forster.

Phil

Well, let's see. You complained about Redding's price, packaging design, rings, lack of online digital instructions (really!?) and that you don't like the design of their website (really!? x 2).

You can choose to not buy Redding products, or augment them with other 3rd party products.

I think you just like to hear yourself whine.

-nosualc

 

[Phil3]

I am new to reloading. Instructions would be nice if any that are packaged are lost, or are missing from a purchase of a used die. My response to NOT having on-line instructions, in this day and age is "REALLY"!? As a person trying to understand the different products, how they work, what benefit they provide, I count on information on 6mmbr.com, books, and yes, even the people who make the product. Redding's website is not very helpful. Perhaps you are so experienced, these things are unimportant to you.

"You can choose to not buy Redding products...". You already said that in the previous post.

Think what you want about my motivations, however wrong they are. Continued dialogue along this vein (accusation of whining) is pointless and of no value to members. My responses will be confined to the original topic.

Phil

 

[Phil3]

Dang I must be doing something wrong. I've loaded concentric match ammo (F-Class & Benchrest) with both Redding and Wilson dies. The only difference is that instead of complaining about box design on the innanet I figure out what needs to be done to put out good ammo... YMMV

I think you will see by the history of my posts, I am as engaged as most on what it takes to put out good ammo. And part of that effort includes using easy to use, convenient tools, and easy to access information. Additionally, I like to think that every manufacturer is interested in learning how to improve their product. Who doesn't want feedback? I am sending an e-mail to Redding to give them that feedback. If we, as shooters, "settle" for products, improvements will slow and who wants that?

Good luck on your continued quest to put out good ammo. It is a journey that will never end, but hope you have fun along the way.

Phil

 

[kelbro]

I have such a hodge-podge of dies for several calibers that I just buy the black Dillon boxes and keep the dies in there. The small clear Sterilite containers work well too.

 

[GrocMax]

Only thing that baffles/torques me about Redding is they will not take CC orders. But then again, 90% of the time, what you need to buy from them direct they'll send free 2nd day.

"I screwed up and broke a thingymajig from a blahblah die, can't find one elsewhere"

"Got one coming to ya"

"Yeah, but I brain farted and broke it"

"Got one coming to ya"

 

[284driver]

After purchasing a set of whidden dies i will continue to buy whidden whenever possible. Forster second.
Whidden comes in a big box that looks suspiciously like a Forster box, but that is not the reason I am going with those two. they're superior to the others IMHO.

 

[Cleftwynd]

However with longer cartridges that doesnt work, anything 30-06ish and longer wont fit back in the box adjusted.

I don't think it's a big deal, but I also don't understand how some people can't visualize the issue with longer brass, there is a world out there using something other than short fat cartridges...lol

 

[DCRYDER]

I would rather have a good die than a good plastic box.

 

[ridgeway]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your comment. I have not been able to find any conclusive evidence that the Arbor Press and Wilson seater do any better than the micrometer seater dies. See

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/09/reloading-seating-die-runout.html

The Forster press I have allows the die to float in a horizontal plane and the cartridge to do the same in the shell holder jaws, thereby allowing more alignment straightening than a conventional press. Whether than will actually help or not, I can't say.

Phil

I am not discrediting Salazar, but concentricity is usually caused by other things rather than a seater die. Comparing a SAAMI spec Arbor seating die to a SAAMMI spec micrometer top seater is pretty much comparing apples to apples. Wilson makes a seater blank and can be reamed with the same reamer that chambered your barrel...now you will have something that works. Another huge advantage of Wilson seaters you can feel the seating force, which comes in handy when tracking a concentricity problem. K&M makes a force meter for their arbor press in which you can put a number to your neck tension.

 

[bozo699]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your comment. I have not been able to find any conclusive evidence that the Arbor Press and Wilson seater do any better than the micrometer seater dies. See

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/09/reloading-seating-die-runout.html

The Forster press I have allows the die to float in a horizontal plane and the cartridge to do the same in the shell holder jaws, thereby allowing more alignment straightening than a conventional press. Whether than will actually help or not, I can't say.

Phil

I am not discrediting Salazar, but concentricity is usually caused by other things rather than a seater die. Comparing a SAAMI spec Arbor seating die to a SAAMMI spec micrometer top seater is pretty much comparing apples to apples. Wilson makes a seater blank and can be reamed with the same reamer that chambered your barrel...now you will have something that works. Another huge advantage of Wilson seaters you can feel the seating force, which comes in handy when tracking a concentricity problem. K&M makes a force meter for their arbor press in which you can put a number to your neck tension.

ridgeway,
Your post is 100% spot on imo,..my thoughts exactly!!
Wayne.

 

[Phil3]

After purchasing a set of whidden dies i will continue to buy whidden whenever possible. Forster second.
Whidden comes in a big box that looks suspiciously like a Forster box, but that is not the reason I am going with those two. they're superior to the others IMHO.

Could I ask why you like the Whidden dies over anything else? I checked their website, but not a lot of info on the dies.

Thanks.

Phil

 

[hogan]

The only slam I have against Redding is that unlike Forster, they won't sell die chambers for other cartridges.
One other thing, their decapping rods used in Type S dies are very breakable; like with minor pressure from a 1/4" lathe bit while the rod is chucked deeply into the spindle. Rod is crummy, but the dies are otherwise very good...

Not really any slams at all...



Ol' Phil3 has another post about being new to reloading and not getting decent neck tension for .223 virgin cases he wants to use in his .223.

Your ticket is to get a Redding Type S FL die and a tighter than typical bushing. Your comment on the other thread related to using Winchester brass. WCC and LC may have a bit thicker neck than WIN brass; certainly will see some variation by brands. Bushing die allows you to tailor the neck tension. FL Bushing die will also double as a Body Die w/decap assy & bushing removed.


My perspective on the micrometer bullet seaters and esp mic head sizers is that they are just gimmicks. Guess if you are loading at the range and if you are also using a bullet comparator to determine base to end of ogive, then you likely benefit from the mic head's fine adjustment. Yet, how often do you vary your seating depth once your load node is determined? Do you even own a bullet comparator? Really ought have that before the mic seater, imo.

I buy Forster die chamber seaters for their better value and quality. More often than not, these days I buy their Benchrest, non-mic seater because they are simpler to use and are identical in precision enablement. It is the die chamber, not the mic head that matters. The die chamber with long bearing channel for seater stem to remain fully oriented is what does the work. I prefer only one variable for depth determination so now use the Benchrest seater over the Ultra seater. Bullet comparator and dial or digital caliper give the real seating control that matters anyway.


To Ridgeway and Bozo/Wayne: Think you are mistaken about the wonderful benefits of reaming a blank die with "the reamer used on your barrel". If you look at PTG, they do sell loading die specific reamers. These reamers are of smaller dimension than chamber reamer diameters. If brass were not sized to dimension smaller than your chamber reamer then the brass would spring-back to dimension larger than your chamber was cut. Might not be a big thing if shooting a .221 fireball in a Rem 700 or other medium size action, but a 6.5/284 or WSM size chamber would have troubles. All brass would have trouble, but smaller ones would cam-in w/o much resistance...

Ideally, shouldn't the chamber reamer be .002 or maybe .0015 larger than your virgin brass and your sizing die chosen to return to that virgin dimension upon use? Talking a die which is under finishing-reamer spec by .001 or .0015 so a total of .003" smaller than the chamber reamer, maybe still a bit larger??? Need the tighter dimension for the sizer to allow for brass elasticity or spring-back.

Of course, if loading for semi-auto chambers are going to be looser to allow for lot variations or different maker dimensions and the sizing has to be even more dramatic especially in OAL of the case to avoid slamfire.

 

[bozo699]

To Ridgeway and Bozo/Wayne: Think you are mistaken about the wonderful benefits of reaming a blank die with "the reamer used on your barrel". If you look at PTG, they do sell loading die specific reamers. These reamers are of smaller dimension than chamber reamer diameters. If brass were not sized to dimension smaller than your chamber reamer then the brass would spring-back to dimension larger than your chamber was cut. Might not be a big thing if shooting a .221 fireball in a Rem 700 or other medium size action, but a 6.5/284 or WSM size chamber would have troubles. All brass would have trouble, but smaller ones would cam-in w/o much resistance...

Hogan,
You better re-read my posts, I never said anything of the sort! I use chamber reamer to ream seating die from a blank, I have Kiff make my resize reams also.
Wayne.