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Redding Competition seating die problem/ question

foxguy said:
I have been reading this thread and it really sounds like CH Luke needs a Vernier Ball Micrometer 1".
I would suggest he take several reading on New unfired brass at the Brass mouth and then down inside the neck
appx .200 . ( I believe this would be a base line to compare Fired brass to). Then, do the same on Fired Brass before tumbling in the SS media for cleaning. And then again on the fired brass after being tumbled in the SS media. I would suggest the reading be taken in several places on each piece of brass. And then again after Sizing the brass. If the brass wall thickness is appx the same thru all of these steps then something is happening in the Seating process.

CH Luke stated in a previous post that he pulled bullets and resized a Piece of brass a second time that exhibited the problem and then used a Standard Seating die vs the Competition die and then measured the diameter of the seated round and it still measures .343 at the neck mouth.

One thought comes to mind and that is that Competition and the Std Seating dies have standard seating stems in them and the .308 200gr hybrid berger bullet is a VLD style shaped bullet and possibly that is some how contributing to the issue??

I don't think I would be trimming necks until I knew what was causing this problem as he stated, this has happened on 2 chambers.
It is not a problem on new Brass, only fired brass that has been annealed, cleaned in a SS tumbler and then sized.

I welcome thoughts, comments on my thoughts as I have only been reloading for a couple of years myself.
Click to expand...
If I want to find the problem I would cut the neck off . If I still had the problem I would shim the case and resize it I never have see a casewith the head expanded that didn't stick in the chamber to where I didn't have to bump it out only been loading since 1957
My new dasher I had to shorten the die so I could close the bolt easy . I shined one case and resize it problem solved . Larry
 
Ball micrometer was ordered with the new neck turning equipment ordered first thing this morning from John a Perkins. Appreciate having the measurements outlined for me.
Drinking it in guys. Appreciate your time investment.
 
You seasoned shooters and reloaders have seen a lot, we newbe's appreciate your sharing your insights and experiances. We newbe's sometimes have to take newbe steps to understand what is happening. ( I thought that the shoulders didn't usually have to be bumped back until after 3-5 firings). I don't remember if CH Luke had measured and tried bumping his cartridge's shoulder back.
 
foxguy said:
You seasoned shooters and reloaders have seen a lot, we newbe's appreciate your sharing your insights and experiances. We newbe's sometimes have to take newbe steps to understand what is happening. ( I thought that the shoulders didn't usually have to be bumped back until after 3-5 firings). I don't remember if CH Luke had measured and tried bumping his cartridge's shoulder back.
Click to expand...

Shoulders bumped when FL sized each firing.
 
Why are you moving the shoulder back after each firing? Are you having bolt lift problems?
If the case comes out of the rifle easily but won't fit after sizing and loading then there is something in the loading process that is changing the dimensions of the case.
 
SheepDog said:
Why are you moving the shoulder back after each firing? Are you having bolt lift problems?
If the case comes out of the rifle easily but won't fit after sizing and loading then there is something in the loading process that is changing the dimensions of the case.
Click to expand...

By twice fired it takes about .001 to .0015" bump to get the shoulders back to a nice fit. I check this two ways.
With the shoulder where it ends up after second firing it is getting tight to chamber the brass without bump.
With a stripped bolt the shoulder measurement that chambers with a slight resistance ends up being equal to that .001-.0015" bump.
 
Are you checking the fired brass for fit or after you are sizing it?
If the brass comes out of the chamber with no pressure then it should go back in the same way. Have you tried to rechamber a fired case without doing anything but wiping it down?
 
SheepDog said:
Are you checking the fired brass for fit or after you are sizing it?
If the brass comes out of the chamber with no pressure then it should go back in the same way. Have you tried to rechamber a fired case without doing anything but wiping it down?
Click to expand...

Yes. Checking fired brass after each firing usually for each batch of brass and especially for a new chamber. Checked by measuring and chambering. No shoulder bump new and once fired.

Also check for the target shoulder length by using the stripped bolt method and Redding comp shell holders. This chamber likes about .001" more shoulder length than my old one.

Once I address the issue stopping me from getting to a 3rd firing I will double check if shoulders want to go any further.
 
John Russell said:
The chamber neck is not too skinny, the neck is too thick, and needs to be turned so the neck wall is 0.015" (or less).
Click to expand...

So today I got my package from John Perkins including a vernier tube micrometer and his beautiful neck turning lathe. Merry Christmas to myself.

First thing I did was teach myself how to use the micrometer. At this stage that should probably draw some laughter at the 65 year old marketer just now learning to use a micrometer. Having points of reference estimated for me here was a big help.

New Lapua Palma brass I'm getting neck thickness around .0150. Typically seeing about .0002" variance around each piece but keep in mind I just started doing this. Max difference between two pieces were .001".

Now for the 2x fired brass that has been causing the problem by not chambering. What I got was .0163 to .0168" which grew to about .0168-.0176" at the very lip. So it would appear that the "peening" at the lip is causing a range of about .0005" to .0008" greater diameter.

Now I'm going to put my 2X brass aside for now and start a fresh box of brass. Definitely going to cut back on the stainless tumbler time and just in case I'm going to hold 50 out from my annealing process at 1X and 2X. I will be taking careful measurements with my new micrometer after the first and second firings and looking to better estimate my chamber diameter. Then I will subtract .003" from that estimate and solve for my new target neck thickness and begin using the new lathe. I'm betting it's going to be close to John Russell's call of .015".

As always I'm taking any other thoughts or advice.
 
CH Luke said:
So today I got my package from John Perkins including a vernier tube micrometer and his beautiful neck turning lathe. Merry Christmas to myself.

First thing I did was teach myself how to use the micrometer. At this stage that should probably draw some laughter at the 65 year old marketer just now learning to use a micrometer. Having points of reference estimated for me here was a big help.

New Lapua Palma brass I'm getting neck thickness around .0150. Typically seeing about .0002" variance around each piece but keep in mind I just started doing this. Max difference between two pieces were .001".

Now for the 2x fired brass that has been causing the problem by not chambering. What I got was .0163 to .0168" which grew to about .0168-.0176" at the very lip. So it would appear that the "peening" at the lip is causing a range of about .0005" to .0008" greater diameter.

Now I'm going to put my 2X brass aside for now and start a fresh box of brass. Definitely going to cut back on the stainless tumbler time and just in case I'm going to hold 50 out from my annealing process at 1X and 2X. I will be taking careful measurements with my new micrometer after the first and second firings and looking to better estimate my chamber diameter. Then I will subtract .003" from that estimate and solve for my new target neck thickness and begin using the new lathe. I'm betting it's going to be close to John Russell's call of .015".

As always I'm taking any other thoughts or advice.
Click to expand...


Check the length of your 2x fire brass. It may need trimmed.
 
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