Redding Competition seating die problem/ question

[jlow]

So today I got my package from John Perkins including a vernier tube micrometer and his beautiful neck turning lathe. Merry Christmas to myself.

First thing I did was teach myself how to use the micrometer. At this stage that should probably draw some laughter at the 65 year old marketer just now learning to use a micrometer. Having points of reference estimated for me here was a big help.

New Lapua Palma brass I'm getting neck thickness around .0150. Typically seeing about .0002" variance around each piece but keep in mind I just started doing this. Max difference between two pieces were .001".

Now for the 2x fired brass that has been causing the problem by not chambering. What I got was .0163 to .0168" which grew to about .0168-.0176" at the very lip. So it would appear that the "peening" at the lip is causing a range of about .0005" to .0008" greater diameter.

Now I'm going to put my 2X brass aside for now and start a fresh box of brass. Definitely going to cut back on the stainless tumbler time and just in case I'm going to hold 50 out from my annealing process at 1X and 2X. I will be taking careful measurements with my new micrometer after the first and second firings and looking to better estimate my chamber diameter. Then I will subtract .003" from that estimate and solve for my new target neck thickness and begin using the new lathe. I'm betting it's going to be close to John Russell's call of .015".

As always I'm taking any other thoughts or advice.

Good to see you are getting some useful tools. The thing to keep in mind about the peening is it goes both ways i.e. outside the neck and also towards the inside of the neck. Think of peening as a little elf hammering the ends of the neck, you can see that if the hammering direction is towards the primer, the neck will flatten out both ways. Also of course if you are getting as much as 0.0008” increase in thickness, you can almost double that because it of course affect both sides of the neck i.e. it’s diameter.

Chamfering and trimming does help reduce the peening but at least in my own experience, it’s pretty thick and so requires significant trimmer to rid the case of it which may make your neck a bit short. This is why neck turning is probably still your best bet.

 

[foxguy]

So today I got my package from John Perkins including a vernier tube micrometer and his beautiful neck turning lathe. Merry Christmas to myself.

First thing I did was teach myself how to use the micrometer. At this stage that should probably draw some laughter at the 65 year old marketer just now learning to use a micrometer. Having points of reference estimated for me here was a big help.

New Lapua Palma brass I'm getting neck thickness around .0150. Typically seeing about .0002" variance around each piece but keep in mind I just started doing this. Max difference between two pieces were .001".

Now for the 2x fired brass that has been causing the problem by not chambering. What I got was .0163 to .0168" which grew to about .0168-.0176" at the very lip. So it would appear that the "peening" at the lip is causing a range of about .0005" to .0008" greater diameter.

Now I'm going to put my 2X brass aside for now and start a fresh box of brass. Definitely going to cut back on the stainless tumbler time and just in case I'm going to hold 50 out from my annealing process at 1X and 2X. I will be taking careful measurements with my new micrometer after the first and second firings and looking to better estimate my chamber diameter. Then I will subtract .003" from that estimate and solve for my new target neck thickness and begin using the new lathe. I'm betting it's going to be close to John Russell's call of .015".

As always I'm taking any other thoughts or advice.

CH Luke,

1st on your new brass, If you haven't you should Chamfer the inside and outside of the case mouths (and then re-measure @ that point). That is recommended on the "6MM BR new case prep" located on this site and I have noticed that when running my fingernail along the case Neck towards the case mouth that when I reach the mouth my fingernail will in fact bump at the mouth (on some cases) where the case mouth was factory trimmed.

Just for reference on my 3 times fired 6mm BR Laupa brass, I don't see any thickening on the case necks in the area where I am neck Sizing. Oh, I checked my neck sizing length and that is about .200 of the .320 necks length, so their could be a possible donut starting below the neck sized area?? After shooting, my case prep is - Clean exterior of the necks with 0000 steel wool about 4-6 rotations of the of the case on the steel wool, brush the inside of the necks with a stiff nylon neck brush, De-prime / Neck size, clean primer pockets. ( I suspect after 4-5 firings I would have to full length body size bumping the shoulder back .001-.002 thousands and then neck size). I am in the process of purchasing a Harrell's Sizing Die and once received I will use it after every firing. Thus body sizing (bumping the shoulder back) and neck sizing after every firing).

I suspect the annealing and SS media cleaning is causing your problem and now you have the tools to look into that. I suspect the stainless Steel Media is like small Ball Peen hammers, Hammering on the inside and outside of the necks and on the Mouth of the case as well. It will be interesting to see what your determination is.


Further for your reference...
I have some new Laupa 6MM BR cases that have been chamfered inside and out and the necks are measuring .0135-.014 (as measured to appx a .150-.200 depth into the case mouth with a Caliper as that is all that I have to measure with at this time).
Edited: Sorry- I forgot you are working with 308 caliber.

you may want to consider taking 50% of the 50 pieces of the new brass and not annealing / SS media cleaning, maybe using the 0000 steel wool for cleaning the necks, a stiff nylon brush for the inside of the necks as a control group. what ever this group of cases shows you for measurement data after 2-3 firings, they could be cleaned up with the SS media and annealed at a later time. Food for thought.....

Good Luck, please Keep us informed as to your findings this is learning / School for all of us.

Thanks,

 

[RonAKA]

I have not been following the posts for a while, but I had an experience recently which reminded me of this post. I was loading my 264WM using new Hornady brass. I ran the cases through my sizing die as is my normal practice, and loaded up about 15 rounds. About half way through shooting them, I got one loaded case that would not chamber and got stuck in the barrel. I had to tap it out with a cleaning rod. In many decades of reloading this had never happened before. I checked the rest of the loaded rounds, and they were fine, and as a precaution I chambered all the remaining new brass and they were all fine too.

A friend that also reloads was with me when I was doing this. We eventually determined that the offending loaded round was not even close to chambering, and the large diameter at the shoulder was where it was binding. On visual examination there almost appeared to be a ring where the shoulder radius was bulged out. Pulled the bullet and primer, and resized the case, and it was fine again.

I think there were two possible reasons for this:

1. The brass was too soft. Hornady brass has been blamed for this by others. In your case, I recall you had just annealed, and perhaps your brass is too soft too...

2. My friend noted that my bullet seating procedure was suspect. I was not starting with my seating die clear of the full stop position of the press. I was depending on feeling the case hitting the crimp section of the die to locate the case. The correct procedure is to screw the die down until it touches the ram at full stroke and then back it off a turn. In any case I may have slightly crimped this case, although I have been getting away with it for years. The crimped bullet was in turn putting too much force on the soft brass in the shoulder and bulging it out....

In any case check your shoulder diameter and compare it to sized brass and even fired brass. Interestingly my shoulder on the offending case was less than SAAMI max, but still jammed. The chamber in my gun must be tighter than it should be... It is a rebarrel of unknown origin, so that may be possible.

Hope that helps some, if you have not solved this issue yet. I know it has been a long time!

 

[hogan]

Really use the mic heads on the Redding set? I had a .300win Redding S comp set and sold it off.

I'm happy using a Forster die body seater, and Redding type S FL die. The Forster is their .308win match seating die. I used to spring for the micrometer die, but now use the benchrest style. Just don't need the mic heads. Went with Forster because their gear does same or better job of seating bullets, plus they will sell you body dies and seating stems and other die parts so you can mix/match (pun intended) your own setups. Not possible with Redding.

Redding bushings are interchangeable with Wilson's. Forster went their own way on busing size. If was starting over, might go Forster all the way, but Redding has more selection and can use the less expensive Wilson bushings.

 

[hogpatrol]

Went with Forster because their gear does same or better job of seating bullets, plus they will sell you body dies and seating stems and other die parts so you can mix/match (pun intended) your own setups. Not possible with Redding.

I've bought all die parts from Redding. They will sell you any part you need. You can buy them from Gunstop, Midway, Midsouth or call them direct.