Redding Competition Die Confusion, need help please

[Fire 4 Effect]

OK, I'm gonna pull my pants down and bare all here.

I've been loading for awhile using Redding standard dies for my .308 and 300WM. I just got my first 6BR and opted to purchase the Redding Competition Dies to do my new weapon loads with. Took delivery and I'm setting up for my first sizing/loading when it appears I need a 'bushing'. I didn't order a bushing. I'm not even positive where the bushing goes in this damn thing, I'm assuming on the black sleeve under the spring base plate looking thingy? Second, which bushing should I use? I read the Redding instructions and they talk about sizing a loaded round with a micrometer, then going .001 smaller. What if I don't have a loaded round for this weapon? The barrel is a Krieger 1:8 6BR No neck turn Lapua chamber. Yeah I know... I'm a dumbass, but we all have to start somewhere and my mentor isn't available to me any longer. Thanks for your time.

WW

 

[jhord]

I have the same setup as you, barrel and everything. You're going to "probably" need a .267 bushing, but it wouldn't hurt to get a .266 because things vary a bit. With the latest Lapua brass (no turn) you will "probably" end up with a loaded OD neck diameter of .2675-.2680. Others will chime in but that's what I've found with my brass, which is the blue box stuff. To be sure you will just need to load a few rounds with your really nice seater die and do some measuring.

 

[distinguished]

The taller die will have index marks and that is the seating die. The short die should be marked
6mm rem B/FL on the side, this is the sizing die. The top of the sizing die is black and has a knurled lock ring.
Loosen the lock ring and unscrew the top portion of the die. The bushing goes in this space. You can seat a bullet in a case with the seating die and then measure the outside of the "loaded" dummy round and subtract to determine the bushing size you need. The bushing that I am using is a .267" so you will be close to that number +or- about .002" hope this helps

 

[Fire 4 Effect]

OK, to muddy things up a bit more, I do have two loaded rounds from the original owner and a lot of spent brass from this rifle. I also have what appears to be a piece of the original barrel blank with the shoulder, neck and first inch of rifling machined in. I'm assuming this is to allow you to insert a loaded round and check your jam? Measuring the spent cases, the neck is coming up at 0.263-0.264". The loaded rounds have a neck diameter of 0.261" and 0.262". Measuring the neck on that piece of barrel blank I'm finding a neck of 0.266". I've seen other posts talking about no turn necks at 0.272. Now I'm really confused. If 0.272" is a no turn neck, I would think my 0.266" is definitely a tight neck and requires turning right? Is there some way you can suggest to measure the neck on the actual weapon barrel so that I'm sure I'm getting correct data from this piece of barrel blank?

Based on the info here, would you suggest a bushing of 0.265"?

Thanks again
WW

 

[jhord]

What matters is what the barrel mounted to the gun really is. Was the barrel shortened and re-chambered? I don't think you're really going to know until you insert a round into the gun and pull the trigger. See what the neck measures after that...

 

[rain164845]

It could be dangerous to fire the rifle without turning necks if the rifle has a tight neck chamber.
Joe

 

[hoss6br]

.266 sounds right from the info you provided, the only way to be sure is to do a chamber cast with creosafe, if youre loaded rounds you have came with the gun at .264 you have .002 clearence witch is good, but the new lapua is .012 so youre loaded round would be .267, so youre gona hafta turn the necks down a few thou. hope that helps

 

[distinguished]

I believe the section of barrel is so you can check neck clearance based on what you just said. It would seem that you have a tight neck chamber. To be sure you could have a gunsmith do a chamber cast. I feel fairly certain the rounds that came with the rifle are correct for it. You may want to try a .261" bushing to start but first check to see that all of the cases have been turned to the same thickness or you could run into pressure issues! You can get the tool to measure neck thickness from Sinclair. I think you should have a chamber cast made just to be safe.

 

[DCRYDER]

That little piece of barrel is called a chamber gauge. Very handy little piece of equiptment. It should be made from either end of the actual barrel blank that is on your rifle now and more importantly with the same reamer. You can setup both bullet jam AND shoulder bump with it. It does definately sound like you have a tight neck. How tight??? Probably .265" but without doing a chamber cast who knows, cant imagine the brass springing back all way from .266 to .263. Brass springs back after firing and resizing, usually around .001".

I would suggest getting a smith to rechamber to a no-turn. With the new Lapua brass this should be around a .270" or .272" chamber neck. No real benefit to turning necks anymore unless you are necking up or down whole caliber sizes.

IF those cases came from THAT chamber then you should be good to go. I would order a .259" bushing and bang away. Brass will spring back a little and should give you .001 to .002 bullet tension.

 

[Fire 4 Effect]

I got a brand new box of Lapua brass for Xmas. Measuring an unfired, brand new case I get a neck size of 0.260" so assuming that barrel piece, which I'm finding may be a 'reamer print', is giving me an accurate neck measurement of 0.266", I'm thinking new brass would load with a clearance of 0.006" right? Now if I get a die bushing at 0.261" then my clearance on the reloads will be 0.005" right? Why do I need to turn the brass if the clearance is 0.005 or more? How much clearance do you folks recommend? From what I'm reading elsewhere, 0.005-0.008" is fine.

 

[DCRYDER]

Your new brass necks will not measure .260 after you seat a bullet in it. Be closer to .268" if its blue box, .270" if its old carboard box.

 

[distinguished]

Check the barrel to see if the gunsmiths name is on it. If it is, he will probably have records of the work done and would be able to answer any questions.

 

[Fire 4 Effect]

OK.. I've got a pretty blue box. So after loading you say the neck will go to about 0.268". So what should I turn the neck to on those new cases before I load them the first time?

Before I hit submit I tried something.

I just used the seater to seat a Berger 107gr VLD into a brand new unsized case. The neck is now measuring 0.261" not 0.268". I believe what you guys are telling me I'm just not getting the same results. If a 0.272" neck is a 'no turn Lapua neck', then why is the brand new brass 0.260"? That's 0.012" clearance initially and I just don't see the expansion on this loaded round to take the clearance down appreciably. I'm really getting confused here. Please be patient with me, I really appreciate the info.

WW

 

[DCRYDER]

I think we have a problem with the measuring device.

You probably have a no turn after all.

 

[Fire 4 Effect]

Check the barrel to see if the gunsmiths name is on it. If it is, he will probably have records of the work done and would be able to answer any questions.

Just pulled it out of the safe and took a look. The guy that sold it to me said it was a Kreiger barrel, 1:8 twist. On the barrel the only thing it has is "Hollands 6mmBR Lapua"

I'm assuming that's referring to the reamer? Any other ideas?

WW

 

[DCRYDER]

What are you using to measure?

 

[Fire 4 Effect]

What are you using to measure?

Digital calipers. I'd like to think you might be right but jesus, that will mean all my other load measurements (OAL's, etc.) are probably off. I'll get access to another couple sets of calipers tomorrow and some mic's, I'll check my equipment.

I just used a neck thickness micrometer (not ideal I know) to check the measurements and they appear to be coming out at 0.268" on that new reload and 0.271" on my fire formed cases. I'll bet this damn caliper is out of calibration!

WW

 

[hoss6br]

what you wana do is measure neck wall thickness witch is .012 on the blue box. take .012 x 2 the add bullet diameter so you have, .267. youre gona have to expand the new necks 1st then take .002 off the neck then size at about .264. you want youre loaded round to be just under chamber size, if its 266 i would try for 265 loaded

 

[Fire 4 Effect]

what you wana do is measure neck wall thickness witch is .012 on the blue box. take .012 x 2 the add bullet diameter so you have, .267. youre gona have to expand the new necks 1st then take .002 off the neck then size at about .264. you want youre loaded round to be just under chamber size, if its 266 i would try for 265 loaded

Good info, I hadn't thought of it like that. I think DCRYDER may have figured out the problem, I won't be able to confirm until tomorrow. Looks like I've got a bad set of calipers. Anyone got a suggestion for the best (most reliable/accurate) brand/vendor of calipers? ;D

Thanks guys, I'll post tomorrow when I get confirmation on the measuring equipment.
WW

 

[DCRYDER]

measure a bullet and see if it reads close to .243"

length of new brass should be around 1.555