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Red flag laws

what can anyone tell me factually about the red flag laws . All I read is Facebook propaganda and would like to hear from people who have them in your state .
I have heard about people getting shot by cops for resisting and you can loose your guns without due process. Any information would be appreciated..
 
So , mulligan, not pointing at you in any way , after reading this article help me get this straight. If my liberal, pita membered , ex anything was offended by me shooting squirrels or anything for that matter they could go to a judge and ask for my guns to be seized and without any sort of due process on my behalf it could happen.
Let me play the devils advocate and say after this law was rooted all any Feinstein loving person could tell the police or a judge you were a threat to yourself or others and boom you lose your guns and possibly your life .
 
The risk that comes with any law, is that someone will misuse it or misapply it.

I'm not familiar with the law in Washington State, but we do have one here in Indiana known as "The Jake Laird Law" named after the police officer who was killed by a lunatic who's guns should have never been returned to him.

I am not aware of any instances of the law being misapplied, but I'm not aware of every instance of it's enforcement. And of course I'm sure that every person who has had their weapons taken away will probably say that they shouldn't have been.

If I had to cast a yea or nay vote for the law Indiana has, I would vote in favor. Hopefully nothing happens to make me regret that support.

Here is a link to the quick reference guide to the Jake Laird Law. www.in.gov/isp/files/Jake_Laird_Law_Summary.pdf
 
Taking someones liberties from them who by consensus of loved ones and or others are a threat to themselves or others is a very grave matter. The involvement of a judge is to validate information and prevent mis application of the law.
There are laws on the books to handle these situations.
Bank accounts, dads car keys, moms check book, mental illness, mental decline.
Unfortunately mis use of law for the wrong purpose is human nature.
Calm heads and honesty few and far between.
 
If I had to cast a yea or nay vote for the law Indiana has, I would vote in favor. Hopefully nothing happens to make me regret that support.

Here is a link to the quick reference guide to the Jake Laird Law. www.in.gov/isp/files/Jake_Laird_Law_Summary.pdf

Oh, my!
You should read through the link you posted. The parts about warrantless seizures and taking years to get your firearms back even if you are innocent, are interesting. If Dianne Feinstein had this power, all of us would be in jail. Because anyone that owns a gun must be crazy.
 
If my liberal, pita membered , ex anything was offended by me shooting squirrels or anything for that matter they could go to a judge and ask for my guns to be seized and without any sort of due process on my behalf it could happen.

Convincing the judge to issue the order *is* due process.

We have a red flag law in Washington (where I live), but I've always wondered how such laws can really be enforced. Nobody in law enforcement knows what firearms we own.
 
Judges are NOT unbiased. They are NOT all objective. Their decisions are NOT all based on law and fact.

I have personally experienced a loss of rights due to a corrupt judge and corrupt law enforcement. It is hard to explain how frustrating it is to have your property taken and your reputation destroyed by people with an axe to grind. Proof is NOT required by judges and law enforcement, many of their decisions and actions are based on nothing more than some disgruntled person's rants. Bring guns into it and any fancy story will get their attention and they will happily take away your property and rights. You will be bankrupt or dead before it is all over.
Often times law enforcement can KNOW you are not guilty, but they charge you anyway, they know that it will cost you thousands of dollars in attorney fees as well as lost income and significant mental anguish. They decide they do not like you or you are in their minds a "bad dude", good luck. Who does the judge believe? You, or the Cop? You are a "bad dude" the cop is a "selfless hero". And the judge herself is a cocaine addict. Figure out where that goes!

Laws like this are very dangerous. The "gun guy" is always the bad guy even when he isn't. Its hard to prove you didn't do things, that you didn't do.
 
Convincing the judge to issue the order *is* due process.

We have a red flag law in Washington (where I live), but I've always wondered how such laws can really be enforced. Nobody in law enforcement knows what firearms we own.
Toby , I'm not trying to contradict you but I have worked in law enforcement directly and indirectly and have seen several of the so called due processes you speak of and I will tell you you are off the mark here.
When I think of due process I think of you setting across the courtroom from a judge being questioned and able to answer those questions with proof and the demeanor the judge reads into the situation.
Asthis law seems to be written you will not even know you are under scrutiny until your door is being kicked in . Then and only then , if you live , and after thousands of dollars in attorneys fees and years of character deformation can you get them back . But it doesn't stop there, from that day forward you will be restricted from buying new guns , restricted from interning several friendly foreign countries and on a harass or no fly list for up to 7 years.
 
Toby , I'm not trying to contradict you but I have worked in law enforcement directly and indirectly and have seen several of the so called due processes you speak of and I will tell you you are off the mark here.
When I think of due process I think of you setting across the courtroom from a judge being questioned and able to answer those questions with proof and the demeanor the judge reads into the situation.
Asthis law seems to be written you will not even know you are under scrutiny until your door is being kicked in . Then and only then , if you live , and after thousands of dollars in attorneys fees and years of character deformation can you get them back . But it doesn't stop there, from that day forward you will be restricted from buying new guns , restricted from interning several friendly foreign countries and on a harass or no fly list for up to 7 years.

I'm not disagreeing with you on the (un)fairness of the application of the law. I'm simply saying that convincing a judge is all that's required to meet the legal definition of "due process," the same way that a judge issues a search warrant based on input from just one side (law enforcement).
 
District Attorneys are elected officials who's job depends upon pubic opinion being favorable towards them, especially during an election year. They run on their conviction record, and because that is so important, they have a virtual free hand doing what ever they need to in order to get a conviction. They withhold exculpatory evidence, hire self admitted liars to testify for the prosecution, hire specialists to pick jurors who will likely convict, and they can do this because they know the PUBLIC DOESN'T CARE, they just want to feel safe knowing someone (anyone) is behind bars.

Unless and until jurors (that's you and me) demand hard facts and irrefutable evidence be presented at trial, question every witnesses credibility until proven beyond a doubt to be reliable, expose deals and payments made to secure testimony, nothing will change.

A whole lot of innocent people are convicted of serious crimes, including murder in trials that lack any physical evidence connecting the defendant to the crime. And I have to ask myself, why would any moral person agree to convict? Why does the court system allow jurors to harass or pressure other jurors to vote for conviction, just so everybody can go home? There have been significant studies on how otherwise moral people will, when put in a group, do quite immoral things if it makes them feel like part of the team.

In short: Why are the wheels of justice well oiled and finely tuned to gain a conviction, yet rusted and nearly frozen solid when it comes time to free a wrongly convicted defendant, especially when it's because of prosecutorial misconduct?

Michael Morton was freed a few years ago after being incarcerated for 25 years for a murder he did not commit. The DA who prosecuted him and withheld critical exculpatory evidence later became a judge who was allowed to retire with his pension intact when the Morton was freed and story of his trial became a nation wide scandal.

That whole F.U. mess occurred right here where I live in Williamson County, TX. A county with a well deserved reputation for having "hanging judges" who start with the maximum sentence and work their way up from there.

BTW:I had a spouse who was an assistant district attorney until she quit because her moral compass would not allow her to abuse her power, and so she didn't get enough convictions to please her boss. She later became an internal affairs investigator for a major police dept, ALSO in California. Yea, liberal ol' California! If that shi* happens every day in a solidly BLUE state, whatta'ya think your chances would be in a RED state?

To say the Justice System in American is corrupt to the core and badly in need of a thorough overhaul, is like saying a week-old dead fish stinks.

But others might disagree. Perhaps they enjoy the smell of week-old dead fish. :eek:
 
At some point, they chip away until they win......and we lose. We vote........we still seem to lose. They all want the same thing, a servile population. In the old days people were willing to put their all into attaining and defending freedom. When I listen to a liberal talk, it makes me nauseated.
 
What if you get a kooky judge like the one in the news right now with mike flynn and thinking it was a good idea to bring deportees back and turn them loose in america? What if he decides youre a threat because you own 6 guns and approximately 250rds of ammo like a raging lunatic only could?
 
These are just a logical extension of the domestic abuse laws.

Your wife or significant other can go to the local LEO's and say she feels threatened by your continued presence in the home. They will escort you out of the home, until such time as a judge has time to consider your case. You will NOT take any firearms with you, or be allowed to possess them.
A good friend had this happen to him. He drew a once in a lifetime Moose tag, and was packed and ready to head out after work. She told him she had plans to visit her family, and his presence was required. He said "no thanks" and when he arrived home he found a sheriff's deputy waiting. She thought she would remind him who was the boss. He did find the only effective response. He zoomed over to the bank, left ONE dollar in the checking and savings accounts, called the VA and had them switch his direct deposit retirement check to his brother's bank. He borrowed my bow and went on his hunt. When he got back, she had gone to court and had the charges dropped. Did not know he had gone on the hunt after all.
Hers was the punitive use of the law that got the legislature to change the law. Now, in Idaho at least; the woman files, but does not follow suit, she is charged with filing a false police report, and is generally not allowed to file again. It is also, iirc, a felony charge with some jail time.

He had a happy ending, he filed for divorce and got everything his attorney asked for.
 
Not if you are unable to defend yourself, or make an argument in your favor. Most off those decisions are made without the benefit of the "victim" (firearm owner) knowing what is coming down.
You are correct,in that,most states don`t require prior notice of confiscation. In PA the Sheriffs` deputies will show up and seize any and all weapons as part of a PFA issued by a Judge. In some cases I know of the the deputies can give the gun owner 24 hours to turn them in at their office. The way these laws are written leave them wide open for revenge. I think we all know once your property is gone it will take a long time to get it back. I was in a vault that held confiscated guns,about 12ft x 25ft. The officer that showed me the room,estimated it had over 4000 guns and edged weapons.By the dust on some they`ve been there for some time. I don`t have a solution,but sure hope I never need one.
 

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