Ready for new rifle. 223 - Savage vs Howa

[K9TXS]

I’ve been doing a lot of searching on the net and forums for a new rifle. The main purpose will be for ground squirrels and prairie dogs at distances beyond what my 17 HMR and 22 Mag cannot reach. I haven’t seen recent reviews, (2017 or 2018) of the two rifles side by side. I have decided on the .223 Remington since I have dies and lots of cases already.

This is what I’m looking at:

1. .223 cal. 1-12 twist

2. Ground squirrels & prairie dogs.

3. Scope will be either a Vortex PST FFP 6-24x50 or Sightron 10-50x60. I have both scopes now.

4. Will be shooting 40 to 50 grain bullets.

5. Howa 1500 Varminter Supreme HWR95112 or Savage 12 BVSS

6. Will add replacement trigger for either rifle. Not a fan at all of the accu trigger.

Both rifles get good reviews on the accuracy. Some favor the Howa action over the Savage. I’ve never owned either one, but was able to handle a Savage in the store the other day. While it was not a 223 or the model I wanted, the action did not feel smooth at all and it didn’t lock up smoothly either. I know with the Savage, I can change barrels if so inclined, but I’m not interested in changing calibers.

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[sw282]

H O W A

They also make some Weatherby Varmint guns in 223Rem.. Their Vanguard line.

Vanguards are a bit fancier and better finished than a standard HOWA..

l have owned several Weatherby Vanguards over the years.. All good guns and

never a problem.. Conventional twin lug, 90deg bolt throw.. Nice triggers and

reasonably accurate.. Uses same scope base as 700 Remington

 

[bloc]

I don't have a Howa, nor have I shot one. I read lots of good things about them and not much in the way of bad things.

Having said that, I have several Savages: An FCV (.204 Rem), an LRP (.243 Win) and an LRPV (.223 Rem). They're all very, very accurate, but my favorite is the LRPV which is a single shot rifle with fluted barrel, left loading/ejection port and right-hand bolt.

Both the LRP and the LRPV are heavy and I don't want to spend much time hiking around with either, and both have Savages match accutrigger, which I really like.

One caution about the accutrigger, though. If set to too light a pull, it can fail to drop the hammer (so to speak). You can correct this with a little screwdriver they provide for the purpose. Make sure you've tested it well on the bench before venturing to the varmint fields and you should be okay.

For ground squirrels, I use the 40 grain Nosler BT (~3700 fps) in my LRPV (my best accuracy with that was a 5 shot group into .226 in @ 100 yards).

 

[Dave Berg]

I've owned both of these and with hindsight being 20-20 I'd go with a Savage. Not that particular model but still a Savage.

The Howa had better fit and finish and the bolt was smoother. Didn't like the roll-over cheek-piece but all in all a very nice rifle. Unfortunately it wasn't very accurate. It would shoot around 1 MOA and that was it. Several hundred rounds of load development, pillar and Devcon bedded, and still a 1 MOA gun. I had it re-barreled with a Krieger and suddenly it was a 1/4 MOA gun. That was kind of expensive.

The Savage was a Model 12 BVSS. Stupid barrel nut, sloppy bolt but it shot groups half the size of the HOWA after installing a Rifle Basix trigger. Was fairly satisfied until I shot a buddy's Model 12 VLP. Like night and day riding the bags. Sold the BVSS - never would have sold the Howa as poorly as it shot - and bought my very own VLP, the single shot model. Yes it's a faster twist but it was 0.3-0.4" happy shooting 53 V-Max.

Liked the VLP so much that I bought a used one, again a single shot, and re-barreled it with a McGowan 20 Tactical barrel in 11" twist for $300. There was a wait as McGowan used my reamer and at the time 11 twist barells weren't all that popular. That took some coordination but worth it in the long run. Shoots great.

The LRPV, in my opinion, is way too heavy and has way too long and heavy a barrel. I have one in 223 with a 7 twist barrel that's been sitting here for at least five years with less than 20 rounds through it. Could be yours at a reasonable price..

I wouldn't recommend the Howa or Savage Model 12 BVSS to anyone but I'm a big fan of the 12 VLP, especially if you can find a used single shot.

Two more considerations:

- The Howa is a lot less expensive (unless you have to put a new barrel on it).

- The Howa will probably be hard to find. Savages are everywhere.

 

[joshb]

Have you considered a Tikka? You should. I have 7 or 8 of them and they're all good shooters. They have one of the smoothest bolts out there and the triggers are very good. I don't ever think about replacing one. I've put new custom heavy barrels on three so far but I keep the factory barrels with the guns because they shoot too well to waste. I recommend them to all my friends and have given a few to family members. They're a great value. Lightly used ones go for $5-600, usually.

 

[gravelyctry]

X2 on the Tikka. I tried the rifles you mentioned and now have 3 of the Tikkas in different calibers. They’re all very accurate and made well. Neil

 

[Mark W]

I own both and would chose the savage. I’ve had two of the Weatherby Vanguards and neither turned out to be a consistent moa rifle.

My recommendation would be a 12FV and drop it into the stock of your choice. The last one I bought was a tack driver right out of the box but the Tupperware stock had to go asap.

 

[Evlshnngns]

I sure like my 12fv savage.

 

[Longcarbine]

I like my .223 Howa so much I went out and bought one in .308, both tack drivers.

 

[bloc]

I own both and would chose the savage. I’ve had two of the Weatherby Vanguards and neither turned out to be a consistent moa rifle.

My recommendation would be a 12FV and drop it into the stock of your choice. The last one I bought was a tack driver right out of the box but the Tupperware stock had to go asap.

It's a good rifle (I have the FCV in .204) and Cabella's has it [EDITED: "it" being an FV] for $420. I agree about replacing the stock.

I'm not thrilled with Savage's blind magazine so on my old Stevens 200 I dumped it and put in a benchrest follower, making it a single shot rifle. I love it that way.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Good suggestions so far. One more that has sparked my interest for a factory rifle is the Remington 700 5r. Stainless in a H/S precision stock. Buds Guns have them on their website. Gets good reviews and supposedly head and shoulders above any other Remington product.

 

[CoyoteTan]

Savage single shot, don't get the magazine fed savage model, not very reliable, guess how do I know

 

[strut64]

I would also suggest you stick with savage. My reason is that with the savage design you can easily change caliber. Bolt head and barrel can be changed readily. Should you want you can go from 223 ( original choice) to a caliber like 204, vartarg, or with larger bolt face like 22-250 or 243, 22 BR, etc. much more flexible

 

[Randall Hardy]

I’ll chime in on this one, I’ve had the Weatherby sub moa in 22-250. Didn’t really work for me, shooting off a bipod seemed to have more muzzle flip for me.
I prefer my savages to the Weatherby/Howa. This may get me banned from the site but I have a Ruger 77 that shoots lights out, just a little trigger work.
Too the contrary one of my friends shoots an axiom in 250 and he loves it. My vote would be the savage in a single shot.

 

[CharlieNC]

Buy a Savage action, CBI barrel, decent stock, and you will have a very accurate rifle which will serve you well forever. Semi-custom rig, and you will be thankful for the improved barrel and stock. Tune the accutrigger, it will be better than the aftermarket options and safer as well. Cheap and easy to continue self customization of the Savage using many aftermarket components. Even with nicer customs, my old Sav 223 "self custom" is my favorite as everything has been tweaked by me to suit me, not to mention its extremely accurate to 1000yd.

 

[boltfluter]

No question, Howa or Tikka for the win. Of these two Tikka will always be my first choice. Pre-fits are available for most anything today, if that is a deciding factor for you personally.

Paul

 

[Plumsask]

I’ve been doing a lot of searching on the net and forums for a new rifle. The main purpose will be for ground squirrels and prairie dogs at distances beyond what my 17 HMR and 22 Mag cannot reach. I haven’t seen recent reviews, (2017 or 2018) of the two rifles side by side. I have decided on the .223 Remington since I have dies and lots of cases already.

This is what I’m looking at:

1. .223 cal. 1-12 twist

2. Ground squirrels & prairie dogs.

3. Scope will be either a Vortex PST FFP 6-24x50 or Sightron 10-50x60. I have both scopes now.

4. Will be shooting 40 to 50 grain bullets.

5. Howa 1500 Varminter Supreme HWR95112 or Savage 12 BVSS

6. Will add replacement trigger for either rifle. Not a fan at all of the accu trigger.

Both rifles get good reviews on the accuracy. Some favor the Howa action over the Savage. I’ve never owned either one, but was able to handle a Savage in the store the other day. While it was not a 223 or the model I wanted, the action did not feel smooth at all and it didn’t lock up smoothly either. I know with the Savage, I can change barrels if so inclined, but I’m not interested in changing calibers.

Any input would be appreciated.

I’ll give my vote to Savage, I have owned many of them, from a model 11 in 223 which is very very accurate, also a 308 10 TR, a couple 243 model 11’s one of which became the donor action for my 6mm A.I. Build and is a great shooting rig. Had them in .270 and currently have had a 110 FCP in 338 Lap. All these guns have shot well under one inch and some consistently better then 1/2”. They’re affordabe and they shoot. I do agree depending on the model that the stocks are a bit flimsy, and yes the action isn’t as smooth as a Tikka or browning- I did however find with my 223 that I eventually shot the barrel out of after 6-7k and rebarreled that the the action became smoother over time ( cycling the bolt). As another member stated- lots of parts and prefit barrels available of one would like to do so.

 

[Mozella]

......... snip.......................

Any input would be appreciated.

I own one Howa 1500 and quite a few Savages. The Howa action is quite nice and looks like it was made and finished by real craftsmen in an experienced gun factory. The Savages............... well............... they're made by Savage. They look like they were made by a first year start up company still working out of a big metal building behind the owner's house. But looks aren't everything.

If I were just buying a hunting rifle and there was no danger in wearing anything out in this or the next lifetime, I'd go with the Howa. On the other hand, if you like to tinker and/or you think you'll ever get into some kind of competition, then go with the Savage.

You "can" buy barrels for the Howa, but the choice is quite limited. And not everyone is willing (or able) to fit a barrel with metric threads. I rebarreled my Howa and I've rebarreled all my Savages, some several times. The Savage routine is a piece of cake. The Howa rebarrel procedure is something of a PITA and also more expensive.

The selection of barrels for the Savage is MUCH greater with drop-ins from many big companies and the ability to easily chamber and thread a suitable blank from all the other ones. You can then select EXACTLY the kind of new barrel you want. Other parts are cheap and available too like scope mounts, etc.

So if you never intend to change anything you will find the Howa is a much more nicely made gun. Not to say you can't modify it, but the Savage is much easier especially if you like DIY projects and you don't have a lathe.

By the way, my opinions apply strictly the the action, not the stocks. I purchase actions, barreled actions, or complete rifles and toss the factory stock. Then I fit a stock to suit my purposes.

Either rifle can be made to shoot very well.

 

[sw282]

After further consideration I'd suggest you look for a like new or NIB Remington XR-100 Rangemaster in .223. Checks all the boxes on your wish list (223, 12 twist, etc.) and has a reputation for exceptional accuracy (40X trigger, single shot). I know a guy who has one NIB that he would part with.

Guys on Benchrest Central had some very positive things to say about it:

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?55094-Rem-XR100-in-223-Field-Test

Dave- That thread on the XR-100 223REM is 10 years old.. XR100 is out of

production

282

 

[5spd]

Savage 12fv, M10 etc would be my choice. They have out right accuracy, (many brands do as well these days), ease of swapping barrels and building different calibers if you ever decide to do so. All mine have the blind magazine. I have never run into feeding problems with any of the calibers I built or bought. You can drop the barreled action into an aftermarket stock like most other brands if you decide you don't like the plasctic one.
Yes many other brands have a smoother action when new vs the Savage.