memilanuk
Gold $$ Contributor
I'm a member at several 'private' gun clubs in the area... on the board for one of them. I've gotten to interact with all sorts of 'interesting' folks in the process.
Many of the problems mentioned above are ones I've run across... plus a personal favorite: I'm down range, changing targets @ 100yds. The old fellow(s) back at the line had been sighting in their muzzle loaders for the upcoming season. As I turned to walk back to the firing line... i get treated to the sight of one of them pick up a gun, point it downrange (not directly at me, but close enough), and drop the hammer - with a resulting puff of smoke.
Needless to say, I came uncorked. Full-on Shrek mode, as they say. They couldn't understand my problem - they were simply popping a cap after cleaning the barrel to make sure it was dried out. Said it was 'impossible' for them to have accidentally fired a live round at me - despite one guy having two guns sitting there, and the other three. Completely impossible for them to have picked up the wrong gun and it have been loaded...
I wasn't on the board then, but I made a point of getting involved not long after. Unfortunately, there are no 'public' ranges in the area, and all the 'private' ranges are pretty liberal with their induction process, and none have ROs on duty at all. Honestly, I've seen public ranges with better safety, since there usually *is* an RO right there, on site, to stamp on various kinds of nitwittery as needed. Our range (and most of the others in the area) depend on a very limited number of board members willing to put in the time to maintain a presence.
Since then... here's a couple observations:
1) I'm not sure which is worse - a guy with his kid, or a guy with his wife/girlfriend. A lot of other people may do stupid things, whether out of ignorance or otherwise, but most (not all) can be reasoned with. Guy with a kid or significant other... probably 8 times out 10 will bull up and get confrontational because you're making them look bad. Doesn't matter if its clear as day that they're doing something wrong, or how nice you try to be - it won't matter. This is where having some authority makes a difference - at least I can bounce their a$$ out of there for cause.
2) Groups, especially 'extended family' or neighbors or co-workers. I'm not *that* old (41) but I remember being brought up in a time/place where your 'guests' behavior reflected upon you, and it was your responsibility to rein them in. Seems like a lot of people missed that little cultural nuance growing up. Frequent situation: Bob has a membership to the club, and is a good, safe, well-behaving member. Bob's co-workers (or church buddies, or neighbors, etc.) find out, and say "Hey, Bob, you've got a membership at the club - can we go with you to sight in our hunting rifles right before the season?" Bob agrees, and now we've got 4, 5, 10 or more (seen it) people there hogging the firing line, most of them blatantly unsafe and further more, they don't really care. Bob doesn't want to be the 'bad guy' as he has to live/work around these fine individuals, so he doesn't say boo. When a person of authority does intervene, they get openly belligerent because they don't have anything on the line - what are you going to do, throw them out? No skin off their backside. Offering to call the county sheriff's dept and have them removed for trespassing with a firearm usually reduces the attitude to dirty looks as they pack their crap and leave. Our club has a two guest limit for non-immediate family... which has helped limit this somewhat.
3) Yes, there are a lot of people out there who have purchased firearms, and have little to no training in how to use them, or basic range etiquette. Honestly, a lot of what I see is simple ignorance, not malicious intent. Even the destructive ones - often no one has put it in simple terms for them (shouldn't have to, but still). Luckily one range now has a mandatory safety orientation, and another one should have one soon. You would not believe the amount of pushbacThey don't need no stinkin' safety orientation, or as someone mentioned earlier, seem to think the rules don't apply to them.k in board meetings of this sort of thing - whether it will now make the club liable for when someone inevitably does something stupid anyway, etc.
4) You can bag on the younger crowd with the semi-autos and hi-cap mags all you want. I won't necessarily disagree. BUT... in my experience, some of the fine individuals I get the most push-back from are older - as in 50-60+. They've been shooting for 30+ years, and know what they're doing and are plenty willing to tell you so. God forbid you change the policies or procedures at the range and expect them to comply - they'll just keep doing things the way they always have. I've ran into this behavior @ multiple work places with (as an example) electricians. The young ones will do dumb stuff, sure. They can be trained, though. The old goats, the ones that *should* know better, have gotten accustomed to shaving corners here or there to get things done, etc. When an accident does happen, one that involved death or life-altering injury... its usually the old-timers that insisted they didn't need no stinkin' training or the rules didn't apply to them. Kind of like the old fellows with the muzzle-loaders I mentioned earlier...
When I see that attitude at a *gun range*... I get very, very scared.
YMMV,
Monte
Many of the problems mentioned above are ones I've run across... plus a personal favorite: I'm down range, changing targets @ 100yds. The old fellow(s) back at the line had been sighting in their muzzle loaders for the upcoming season. As I turned to walk back to the firing line... i get treated to the sight of one of them pick up a gun, point it downrange (not directly at me, but close enough), and drop the hammer - with a resulting puff of smoke.
Needless to say, I came uncorked. Full-on Shrek mode, as they say. They couldn't understand my problem - they were simply popping a cap after cleaning the barrel to make sure it was dried out. Said it was 'impossible' for them to have accidentally fired a live round at me - despite one guy having two guns sitting there, and the other three. Completely impossible for them to have picked up the wrong gun and it have been loaded...
I wasn't on the board then, but I made a point of getting involved not long after. Unfortunately, there are no 'public' ranges in the area, and all the 'private' ranges are pretty liberal with their induction process, and none have ROs on duty at all. Honestly, I've seen public ranges with better safety, since there usually *is* an RO right there, on site, to stamp on various kinds of nitwittery as needed. Our range (and most of the others in the area) depend on a very limited number of board members willing to put in the time to maintain a presence.
Since then... here's a couple observations:
1) I'm not sure which is worse - a guy with his kid, or a guy with his wife/girlfriend. A lot of other people may do stupid things, whether out of ignorance or otherwise, but most (not all) can be reasoned with. Guy with a kid or significant other... probably 8 times out 10 will bull up and get confrontational because you're making them look bad. Doesn't matter if its clear as day that they're doing something wrong, or how nice you try to be - it won't matter. This is where having some authority makes a difference - at least I can bounce their a$$ out of there for cause.
2) Groups, especially 'extended family' or neighbors or co-workers. I'm not *that* old (41) but I remember being brought up in a time/place where your 'guests' behavior reflected upon you, and it was your responsibility to rein them in. Seems like a lot of people missed that little cultural nuance growing up. Frequent situation: Bob has a membership to the club, and is a good, safe, well-behaving member. Bob's co-workers (or church buddies, or neighbors, etc.) find out, and say "Hey, Bob, you've got a membership at the club - can we go with you to sight in our hunting rifles right before the season?" Bob agrees, and now we've got 4, 5, 10 or more (seen it) people there hogging the firing line, most of them blatantly unsafe and further more, they don't really care. Bob doesn't want to be the 'bad guy' as he has to live/work around these fine individuals, so he doesn't say boo. When a person of authority does intervene, they get openly belligerent because they don't have anything on the line - what are you going to do, throw them out? No skin off their backside. Offering to call the county sheriff's dept and have them removed for trespassing with a firearm usually reduces the attitude to dirty looks as they pack their crap and leave. Our club has a two guest limit for non-immediate family... which has helped limit this somewhat.
3) Yes, there are a lot of people out there who have purchased firearms, and have little to no training in how to use them, or basic range etiquette. Honestly, a lot of what I see is simple ignorance, not malicious intent. Even the destructive ones - often no one has put it in simple terms for them (shouldn't have to, but still). Luckily one range now has a mandatory safety orientation, and another one should have one soon. You would not believe the amount of pushbacThey don't need no stinkin' safety orientation, or as someone mentioned earlier, seem to think the rules don't apply to them.k in board meetings of this sort of thing - whether it will now make the club liable for when someone inevitably does something stupid anyway, etc.
4) You can bag on the younger crowd with the semi-autos and hi-cap mags all you want. I won't necessarily disagree. BUT... in my experience, some of the fine individuals I get the most push-back from are older - as in 50-60+. They've been shooting for 30+ years, and know what they're doing and are plenty willing to tell you so. God forbid you change the policies or procedures at the range and expect them to comply - they'll just keep doing things the way they always have. I've ran into this behavior @ multiple work places with (as an example) electricians. The young ones will do dumb stuff, sure. They can be trained, though. The old goats, the ones that *should* know better, have gotten accustomed to shaving corners here or there to get things done, etc. When an accident does happen, one that involved death or life-altering injury... its usually the old-timers that insisted they didn't need no stinkin' training or the rules didn't apply to them. Kind of like the old fellows with the muzzle-loaders I mentioned earlier...
When I see that attitude at a *gun range*... I get very, very scared.
YMMV,
Monte
