Range idiots.

[ZenOhSix]

I have been seeing more range idiots over the past 5+ years. I even dropped my membership to one club because of them. Black rifles are the problem. Well black rifles, cheap ammo and zombie targets. These people give all of us a bad name..

I am sorry, but you can't be serious? Normally, I can read sarcasm within a post; none was found with yours.

Black Rifles are not the problem. Idiots are the problem. With no intended offense to you for your opinion, discrimination of equipment based upon color or style is no different (IMHO) than discrimination of people with different attributes (skin color, accent, language, etc.).

The problem is clearly the people who operate the equipment. Irregardless of the source being ignorance, intent, judgement, etc. Sometimes people can overcome their own downfalls with the aid and assistance of mature shooters through education; unfortunately their (hopefully previous) actions can put into motion a tainted image among the public, that all mature shooters have to deal with.

In alignment of those gross actions from those individuals being described in the topic of this thread, discrimination of equipment is also a problem that also needs to be addressed and fought as well. Else, your expressed opinion has placed me (and most likely a majority of others in this thread) in that same category of people that exhibits poor judgement through unsafe range etiquette. Which, I do not appreciate.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[logger3006]

Logger
Sent you a PM
That's my home range and will try to get to the bottom of this mess, Yes we have had a lot of problems with Range Slobs. We are trying hard to identify them and need help. Any information that anyone has would be greatly appreciated.
LitLBoy

Good evening Stan, I want to start by saying you do a great job over there.(its funny that I have never met you but I know your work) And I know you can't be there to babysit all the time. I got your PM I will give you a call when I get some time. (I'm amongst people right now). All of the work you have done is appreciated by me and the guys I shoot with, unfortunately people don't care about having a nice range you can take your family to and be safe. Keep up the good work Stan, they are lucky to have you.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Public range, new shooting bench "on fire" from the last A$$ Hole that just shot the $hit out of the new toilets that were just put in and run over by his BIG 4X4. No wonder there's no safe places to shoot! :
That's the reason I shoot at a "Members and invited Guests Only" shooting range. The best $150.00 I've ever spent. Range officer on duty most of the time. Clean and safe place to shoot and BS with like minded people.

 

[bobinpa]

I have been seeing more range idiots over the past 5+ years. I even dropped my membership to one club because of them. Black rifles are the problem. Well black rifles, cheap ammo and zombie targets. These people give all of us a bad name..

I am sorry, but you can't be serious? Normally, I can read sarcasm within a post; none was found with yours.

Black Rifles are not the problem. Idiots are the problem. With no intended offense to you for your opinion, discrimination of equipment based upon color or style is no different (IMHO) than discrimination of people with different attributes (skin color, accent, language, etc.).

The problem is clearly the people who operate the equipment. Irregardless of the source being ignorance, intent, judgement, etc. Sometimes people can overcome their own downfalls with the aid and assistance of mature shooters through education; unfortunately their (hopefully previous) actions can put into motion a tainted image among the public, that all mature shooters have to deal with.

In alignment of those gross actions from those individuals being described in the topic of this thread, discrimination of equipment is also a problem that also needs to be addressed and fought as well. Else, your expressed opinion has placed me (and most likely a majority of others in this thread) in that same category of people that exhibits poor judgement through unsafe range etiquette. Which, I do not appreciate.

Thanks,
Mike

+1....Very well stated sir. I couldn't agree more!

 

[K22]

In almost 50 years of shooting at ranges and gun clubs I've seen almost everything. At least with clubs most have a procedure for weeding out range idiots.

I seen one guy blow up a 45 pistol, a guy shoot himself in the hand, untold number of highly dangerous actions by range idiots, confrontations when range officers attempting to correct an unsafe shooter, countless examples of damaging club property by playing Rambo with an AR, etc.

It's no wonder anti gun people are suspicious of gun owners, a few bad apples can spoil the whole barrel.

At my age I don't need the hassle anymore, I just pickup and leave when I see a range idiot - I can almost detect them when they approach the range, usually they have a gun in a paper bag and a box of ammo, no targets, no ear muffs, no eye protection. They looked confused and unsure of themselves.

With the recent explosion of semi auto pistols (I'm not against them) the range had become hazardous in the extreme. Typically when a shooter has a jam he will attempt to clear it by racking the action pointing the pistol down the firing line to obtain a natural hold against his body (right handed shooters). I try to take a position on the pistol range to the far right to avoid having a right hand shooter point a loaded jammed pistol at me. Most do it without even realizing what they are doing because it so natural to grab the slide with the left hand, hold with stock with the right hand with the legs pointing down range the tendency is to turn the pistol to the left down the firing line to clear it. See it almost every time even with experienced shooters.

 

[338 Mollett]

I know this is a "Zen moment shooting forum"but there is nothing exclusive to the ranges that isn't rampant throughout our entire society !

 

[OldmanFCSA]

In my younger years ........................

While down range posting targets during a "COLD" condition on the range, several shots rang out with projectiles striking a target near me. I yelled 'CEASE FIRE" and quickly made my way back to the benches. After relaxing and gaining control of my blood pressure, I calmly walked down to their bench and asked why they were firing during a COLD condition. I was informed that this new custom expensive rifle was so accurate that range rules could not be applied to them. I asked if I could examine the rifle that was that accurate and was given perission. I inspected for loading condition, removed the bolt and thru it as far into the weeds as I could, and smashed the rifle on the concrete bench by holding onto the barrel and swinging like an ax.

Like I said, In my younger years...................................

How I got away with it, I will never know. Today I handle things differently.

And yes, other shooters on the range cheered when I walked away.

 

[hpshooter]

Thanks ZenOhSix for putting what I was thinking into words.

I have belonged to the same gun club for 32 years and while I and my wife were NRA instructors for rifle, pistol and shotgun we were part of a team that put 1500 people through the NRA basic pistol/revolver class. I have shot NRA High Power, NRA conventional bulls eye, USPSA pistol, NRA Action pistol, NRA small bore prone 200 yard bench rest for score, club level 300 yd F class and several other disciplines including a limited amount of trap. I own many types of firearms and NFA items and use and enjoy them all.

At 68 years of age I am still dismayed at the amount of "Elite-ism" that exist within the shooting sports by many shooters. Blaming ignorant actions committed by untrained and or irresponsible gun owners on various types of firearms that don't fit an individuals concept of what an acceptable or proper firearm is is fool hardy at best. Such a stance undermines any chance of a united front among gun owners to stand against anti-gun legislation and public opinion.

The trap shooter who can't understand why anyone "needs" a class 3 firearm, the revolver shooter who tells their friends that a Glock or 1911 is a criminals gun or the bench rest shooter who blames black guns and not stupid people for dangerous range behavior tends to raise my normal 125 over 80 blood pressure and question their sanity.

No disrespect intended but if we don't stand together, educate new gun owners and be concerned when the other guys goat is being gored we will loses our firearms rights one type, configuration and color at a time.

Respectfully submitted,
T W Hudson

 

[muddy72]

My theory is to be at the range first thing. The state run local range opens this time of year @ 7AM and I'm usually set up and ready to go by 7! I find that the other folks that are there at the same time are usually trusted folks and I'm fine with that. The talk is usually on the serious side and you may learn a thing or 2!

Now if I go back the next morning I can sometimes see the reasons for not going mid-later in the day. Maybe a new hole in the roof or a target backer gone and a shot up trash barrel. I've even noticed shattered concrete with a few blood spots trailing away, not kidding!

 

[mikecr]

At my range the type of people shooting assault rifles are there to destroy things with their guns. That's what they're about.
They carry downrange full paint cans, cinder blocks, and anything else that reacts when finally hit by a lucky shot..
I've seen one shoot so much, pieces of rifling fell out of his brake in front of the bench. Ruined barrel of course, but does it really matter? He didn't bother to pick up his brass or the rifling!

For the most part, they're jackasses that do have a good time, which I'm all for despite.
But what a mess they make.. Twice a year it's my duty to replace backers and pick up their trash.
They are Marines with Barrett 50s, young rednecks with SKS clones, immigrants -including entire gangs(and their hoes)(it only takes one key). Well at least the immigrants clean up when they're done.
Welcome to a private range in North Carolina..........Couldn't imagine public!!!!

A Master Chief coached me way back: "Everyone screws up now & then. But if you screw up AND you look like sh*t,, -you're a screw-up".
I've had a few assault weapons, nothing against them nor the protection potential in em. But I don't like screw-ups with assault weapons. I would not unite with them.
That's the way I feel.

 

[CatShooter]

I've seen one shoot so much, pieces of rifling fell out of his brake in front of the bench. Ruined barrel of course, but does it really matter? He didn't bother to pick up his brass or the rifling!

How did that happen - other than a missing a full auto postiion on the gearshift, these are machine guns designed to shoot magazine after magazine, until the barrel is red hot, and keep on going.

Rifling does not fall out of barrels.

 

[people]

It's no wonder anti gun people are suspicious of gun owners, a few bad apples can spoil the whole barrel.

We do stuff they do not like and it eats them up.

 

[jimcasey01]

I have been seeing more range idiots over the past 5+ years. I even dropped my membership to one club because of them. Black rifles are the problem. Well black rifles, cheap ammo and zombie targets. These people give all of us a bad name..

Black rifles are not the problem, people are. I shoot an AR-15 almost weekly. It has a single shot sled, manual ejection, has either a flat mounted for bench rest or is mounted to a Sinclair bi-pod. It will keep up with about any bolt rifle in the same caliber. Excuse me, but I believe that your thinking is both faulty and elitist! So I am OK if I am shooting a 6PPC, but an idiot with a "black rifle"?

 

[ZenOhSix]

I have a feeling that this thread is going to be derailed...

I appreciate that some people understand (to me anyhow), the simple concept that it isn't the tool which is the problem; clearly it is the person utilizing the tool. As HPSHOOTER mentioned, when enthusiasts of the same hobby begin to discriminate within, it creates a divide among the entire populace; any opposing force with intelligence will look to capitalize upon that opportunity. While those such as MIKECR or STEVE3 would be happy for those tools to be abolished, it only sets precedent that ALL tools should be removed. You cannot appease the anti-firearm groups with compromise; they won't stop until all 2A liberties have been stricken. It is black and white (pun intended) to them, and apparently for those within as well.

I wish I had the intellectual capability to persuade those to think differently; how is it that some people don't understand that the tool does nothing without the person utilizing it?

When I read counter-opposed positions, I try to envision their point of view. The only conclusion I can draw here is "convenience" and "opportunity"; the "type" of individuals who do not share the same shooting etiquette, can exert their bad behaviors easier with one tool vs. another. Yet, that is building a skyscraper on a faulty foundation. One shouldn't use shady logic to continue to build an argument from! If I were to act from the same level of reasoning, I would make a case that precision shooting should be banished, due to the destructive nature of tannerite. Heck, look at this video:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVSecWR5YgY[/youtube]

That 1979 Ford Bronco was destroyed at 300 yards with a .338 Lapua, precision rifle! Going back to MIKECR's logic, I could easily destroy a paint can with a BR rifle, albiet it may take a little longer.

No. No. No.

Lets not debate this, argue this, or anything else of such nature. A tool is an inanimate object, that requires a tool to operate it in a mannerism that we all (collectively) disregard. Rather, it is an easy concept to understand and it allows everyone to stand united.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[jimbo88mm]

Thanks ZenOhSix for putting what I was thinking into words.

I have belonged to the same gun club for 32 years and while I and my wife were NRA instructors for rifle, pistol and shotgun we were part of a team that put 1500 people through the NRA basic pistol/revolver class. I have shot NRA High Power, NRA conventional bulls eye, USPSA pistol, NRA Action pistol, NRA small bore prone 200 yard bench rest for score, club level 300 yd F class and several other disciplines including a limited amount of trap. I own many types of firearms and NFA items and use and enjoy them all.

At 68 years of age I am still dismayed at the amount of "Elite-ism" that exist within the shooting sports by many shooters. Blaming ignorant actions committed by untrained and or irresponsible gun owners on various types of firearms that don't fit an individuals concept of what an acceptable or proper firearm is is fool hardy at best. Such a stance undermines any chance of a united front among gun owners to stand against anti-gun legislation and public opinion.

The trap shooter who can't understand why anyone "needs" a class 3 firearm, the revolver shooter who tells their friends that a Glock or 1911 is a criminals gun or the bench rest shooter who blames black guns and not stupid people for dangerous range behavior tends to raise my normal 125 over 80 blood pressure and question their sanity.

No disrespect intended but if we don't stand together, educate new gun owners and be concerned when the other guys goat is being gored we will loses our firearms rights one type, configuration and color at a time.

Respectfully submitted,
T W Hudson

+1 to you and Zen. The "anti-black-gun" comments (especially by Steve3) are ignorant, lame, and certainly don't help.

 

[savagedasher]

We have Idiots at our range all the time. We also have very good range officers.
I never seen a idiot that only shot black guns. Their not my choice of guns but they also are over 60% of the gun sales. We are going to have a shoot next month . I will bet more then half of the shooter will will be shooting Black guns. With rules and good rang officers. They wont be any more problem the rest of the shooters.
The secret to dealing with new shooters is No BS range officers and safety rules. Larry

 

[Rpbump]

The difference between intelligence and STUPIDITY is that there is a limit to intelligence. When at the range I never ignore an unsafe act, sometimes a little reminder can correct the problem.
But if required unsafe actions will be addressed loudly and safety violators will be removed by range safety officers. My club has zero tolerance for those that endanger fellow shooters.

Rpbump

 

[Eddie Harren]

"Cows may come and cows may go, but the BULL around here stays forever".

 

[Pres100]

I have seen idiots at private clubs as well, I don't think that you can screen them all by a fee. Our range has done a lot of work to prevent any stray rounds from leaving the range by the use of baffles and you still get people trying to shoot out the supports that hold them up because they think it's funny.
Then there are people who think its funny to shoot up the steel targets with AP ammo.

The craziest thing I have ever seen at a public range is during a peak time when approx 20 shooters on the pistol line were hot and going at it, a little foreign man calmly walked down range to change his target while everyone was shooting! He just didn't know better or give it any thought.

What mostly disgusts me is the folks who go out to public places to shoot (that are not necessarily designated ranges, but open land) and take out their TV's, plates, washers, computers and other household junk and shoot it up and leave. The areas quickly turn into dump sites and get closed down. Disgusting.

 

[LHSmith]

I, being the RM at two local ranges have solved the idiot problem with the addition of one new Range rule: single load only (nothing allowed from a magazine)......no more mall ninja's rolling in the grass doing acrobatics as they shoot, no more holes in the roof over the shooting benches, no more shot up target backers....life is good again. BTW, a few working vid cams with a recorder helps police the situation.
Anyone who does not like the new rule is welcome to present a motion to the board(s) to change it....they must be willing to take on the RM and range maintenance responsibilities however. So far, no takers after 5 years.
From my experience, the overwhelming range damage is done by novice AR "enthusiasts"......it's just the nature of spray and pray mentality.