Or just make Creedmoor brass out of Lapua Palma brass and have the best of both worlds. Just a thought but I do agree that the 6.5x47 is a sweet set up.
Question for u 6.5 guys??
- Thread starter T 700
- Start date
Or just make Creedmoor brass out of Lapua Palma brass and have the best of both worlds. Just a thought but I do agree that the 6.5x47 is a sweet set up.
hogpatrol
Gold $$ Contributor
I've had all my Remingtons bushed. One less variable in the accuracy and consistency department.
It depends on the action design, and then between different examples of the same make / model. (I have three rifles built around Savage 12 PTA single shot actions, and every one is different in this respect from no real issue to a definite limitation - likewise, Remington 700s are a lottery.)
My first go at 6.5X47 Lapua was in its very early days with a re barrel job on an FN SPR A2/A4 - a lovely action (selected Winchester pre-64 type 70 short magnum receiver with a 308 face bolt), but a disaster in this cartridge. Primers cratered badly on Viht's mild starting loads and blanked at 1.5-2gn above starting and well below proper working pressures. That rifle was rechambered as a 260 Rem and has since shot superbly with only mild cratering on maximum loads. (We don't have an equivalent to Greg Tannell in the UK and nobody wanted to touch a bushing job at that time. We can get it done here now, but not a cheap job.)
Laurie
Laurie,
I've got a Remington 700 6mm Dasher that craters CCI450s at 32.1 of RE-15, which is far from a hot load. Did you ever find the reason for cratering at such a low load? I'd like to make this one work, but might re-chamber to 6 SLR eventually.
Thanks,
Terry
Laurie,
I've got a Remington 700 6mm Dasher that craters CCI450s at 32.1 of RE-15, which is far from a hot load. Did you ever find the reason for cratering at such a low load? I'd like to make this one work, but might re-chamber to 6 SLR eventually.
Thanks,
Terry
As I understand the issue, it is usually partly down to firing pin tip diameter - the larger it is, the more likely there will be a problem - and the pin to bolt-face hole fit. There are other issues too such as mainspring strength and the mass of the moving bits of the firing mechanism. My FN has a very fat pin tip even by factory rifle standards.
We have a number of 6.5X47L Accuracy International tactical rifle shooters in the UK. They nearly all had to go down the bolt-bushing / tip diameter reduction route to be able to run full pressure loads. When I ran a stock Rem 700 6BR with a 28-inch Border barrel some years back I ended up having to limit my 105gn Berger VLD / VarGet loads to a little under 2,800 fps MV - going up to the next node was impossible due to blanking. It shot fine and won me a few small group patches etc, so it's not the end of the world.
The FN though with 6.5X47 Lapua was a different matter entirely as it just couldn't make use of the cartridge's potential. A Stolle Atlas based rifle had no problem subsequently with its finer tolerances and smaller diameter pin.
It's an issue that would-be 6.5X47L users should be aware of though. The cartridge is rated at a higher peak pressure than its 6.5mm competitors - Creedmoor, 260 Rem and 6.5X55mm SKAN. Creedmoor / 260 factory loads generate around 58,000 psi and that's a sensible level for precision handloads too IMO and they'll deliver the same performance as the 6.5X47L running at getting on for its 63,000 psi maximum having larger capacity cases and able to burn more powder (= more energy input). The 6.5 SKAN does it at even lower pressures - 53,000-55,000 psi - but needs a long action or a no-magazine single-loading set up that usually sees the bolt having to be withdrawn to unload a live round.
These are all pros and cons for a group of similarly performing designs - but people planning a rebarrel or a new build need to be aware of the issues and not fall into the trap that I did with the FN SPR.
As a matter of interest, if you look up the Lapua website for its factory ammunition, its four loadings are all very mild indeed. Assuming that Lapua will almost certainly use sister company Vihtavuori's propellants, a run through QuickLOAD suggests that they'll only generate 50,000-52,000 psi. Lapua developed the cartridge as a short-range number for 300-metre ISSF competition and it has since been adapted successfully to far more demanding tasks. It does them very well, but would-be users need to be aware that it is a small capacity, VERY highly stressed design and that does demand a higher firearm specification.
There is the law of physics to consider, when all is said and done.
Velocity requires one of two things, lots of powder, or very high pressure. Load the shorter cartridges to the same velocity as a 6.5-284 and you have higher pressures. That equates to faster barrel erosion and shorter barrel life. Load the 6.5-284 down to the velocity levels the smaller volume cartridges generate, and the barrel will last as long, if not longer. Pressure, and shooting fast enough to heat the barrel are what kills it, IMHO.
Rich
Velocity requires one of two things, lots of powder, or very high pressure. Load the shorter cartridges to the same velocity as a 6.5-284 and you have higher pressures. That equates to faster barrel erosion and shorter barrel life. Load the 6.5-284 down to the velocity levels the smaller volume cartridges generate, and the barrel will last as long, if not longer. Pressure, and shooting fast enough to heat the barrel are what kills it, IMHO.
Rich
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
I find it comical when people want to find ways to make a little cartridge go fast and push it too it's limits, knowing darn well it just ain't gonna be fast. If speed is a concern, just use a little but bigger cartridge than the 6.5x47L. Recoil can't be that much of a factor just ringing steel.
Shooting BR? Sure, low recoil is very nice for bag tracking. But 1200 yard steel? Don't matter
Shooting BR? Sure, low recoil is very nice for bag tracking. But 1200 yard steel? Don't matter
I should have said in my earlier post that SR primers, even the magnum / BR ones with the thicker cups crater / blank much more easily than LR types. I don't know why, but it's a fact and applies to anything that uses the small size so it rears its ugly head with the 223 and suchlike. That's why rechambering my FN to 260 cured the problem, no doubt helped by lower pressures too, but it was much, much more about primer type.
I did read an enormously detailed and lengthy article in Precision Shooting maybe 20 years ago as to what happens when the primer blanks and the little brass disk is blown out, usually into the bolt body. I can't remember now what the process is, but I do recall thinking it was far, far more complex than I'd ever have imagined.
I did read an enormously detailed and lengthy article in Precision Shooting maybe 20 years ago as to what happens when the primer blanks and the little brass disk is blown out, usually into the bolt body. I can't remember now what the process is, but I do recall thinking it was far, far more complex than I'd ever have imagined.
Gabe22BR
Gold $$ Contributor
Phil
Gold $$ Contributor
thank you sir!
me 4
http://www.6mmar.com/65_SuperLR.php
The 6.5 super long range.
No fire forming.
I made cases from 308 Lapua Palma brass with the small primer pocket.
Runs 2950 or better, all day long.
dave
The 6.5 super long range.
No fire forming.
I made cases from 308 Lapua Palma brass with the small primer pocket.
Runs 2950 or better, all day long.
dave
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
If your considering a wildcat, consider a 6.5 similar to the 6SLR. I think someone has named one the 6.5SLR.
Use your favorite 260 rem brass and push the shoulder back the 30* and viola you have the advantages of greater capacity and the better case form, and a longer neck, with no fire forming. In the 6SLR there is a lot of evidence that doing so pretty much triples the barrel life over a 243, got to imagine it will work well in the 6.5 too.
Get dies from Whidden
I have a 6SLR and I like it. Based on that if/when I get around to building a 6.5 I've pretty much decided this is what I'll do.
Use your favorite 260 rem brass and push the shoulder back the 30* and viola you have the advantages of greater capacity and the better case form, and a longer neck, with no fire forming. In the 6SLR there is a lot of evidence that doing so pretty much triples the barrel life over a 243, got to imagine it will work well in the 6.5 too.
Get dies from Whidden
I have a 6SLR and I like it. Based on that if/when I get around to building a 6.5 I've pretty much decided this is what I'll do.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.