Question about case annealing and quenching the cases.

[VaniB]

What's not clear to me is whether I am supposed to immediately quench the hot finished case in water, or let it cool off on its own?

I intend to start annealing my 223 and 308 cases, and have done some researching on it. I will be using tempilaq 750° paint-on temperature liquid as most folks recommend.

However, it seems that none of the pro's/manufacturers on YouTube who demonstrate their automated rotary machines (like "Ballistic Edge", "Grizzly" or "Bench Source") show the hot cases being dropped into a container of water. However, the guys on YouTube using Tempilaq and doing the one-at-a-time process (like I will be doing) do demonstrate how they drop the cases into water. So, I'm not sure if the guys who are demonstrating their $500-$600 machines are just busy focusing on their machines and didn't bother to properly address this detail of whether to quench or not.....or they actually don't recommend quenching the case.

 

[KevinThomas]

VaniB,

Quenching cools the cases down, but plays no role in the actual annealing process. It does effect how steel is tempered, and the various quenches in different mediums are crucial there. Not so with brass. Time and temp are the determining factors in annealing. Water's messy and adds another step. Dropping the cases onto a cookie sheet or wire mesh basket to cool avoids all that, and the result is the same.

 

[geordiesniper]

Agree with Kevin, I use the Benchsource annealer and the machine top surface acts as a 'heat sink' and the case cools down once out of the flame. My cases just drop through the slot into a metal container and cool normally without any problem.
Just putting them into water means that I have another operation to dry them out.

 

[Nomad47]

I do one at a time manually and do not drop in water.

The cases will NOT get any hotter once the flame is removed. So quenching is sort of like locking the barn door after the horse got out. And I read somewhere that the cases should remain at the anneal temperature for longer than a second or two.

 

[Scott Harris]

Hi have a Ballistic Edge Annealer and put a water bin under to catch the cases. I believe having a water pan is valuable for safety reasons and to minimize the heat transferred to the case heads. I have not done any experiments to determine if that is really necessary, but its pretty simple to dry the cases: no different than when tumbling them in SSM.

 

[4xforfun]

VaniB,

Quenching cools the cases down, but plays no role in the actual annealing process. It does effect how steel is tempered, and the various quenches in different mediums are crucial there. Not so with brass. Time and temp are the determining factors in annealing. Water's messy and adds another step. Dropping the cases onto a cookie sheet or wire mesh basket to cool avoids all that, and the result is the same.

+1!!!!

 

[1066]

I do quench - although I agree that it may not be necessary with brass I do like the reassurance that there is NO heat migration and, in the interest of consistency, that the process stops dead.
I feel that a hot case laying on it's side, whether on an insulating surface such as wood or a conducting surface such as steel will cool at differing rates down the length of the case.
As I wet tumble I have no problem with drying cases and as a low volume user I'm more concerned with quality rather than speed.

 

[bsekf]

I drop them into water and don't have as many dents. Put them on a cookie sheet and dry in a 200 oven.

 

[markm87]

From what I've read here... heat migration is of no concern. If the brass/case head doesn't reach the temps required to anneal, nothing is altered. And you can tell by the discoloration on the neck and shoulder that the heat stayed where it should have.

I just set them on the clothes dryer case head down and allow them to temp down naturally.

 

[jlow]

Hi have a Ballistic Edge Annealer and put a water bin under to catch the cases. I believe having a water pan is valuable for safety reasons and to minimize the heat transferred to the case heads. I have not done any experiments to determine if that is really necessary, but its pretty simple to dry the cases: no different than when tumbling them in SSM.

Agreed. Since I deprime, anneal, and then clean with SS media, quenching in water does not add another step. I just drain most of the water and drop the wet brass into the SS media tumbler and we are off with a regular cleaning.

I do have one related question though, in another thread where we discuss cleaning before annealing vs. cleaning after annealing, there was a response that favored the former. The rationale being that some of the carbon crud will react with the brass in the neck if it was annealed with it on. Has anyone done a actual study (vs. a theoretical thought as to what might happen) to see if that is true? The rationale being that it might cause a rough neck and thus affect neck tension.

 

[amlevin]

Hi have a Ballistic Edge Annealer and put a water bin under to catch the cases. I believe having a water pan is valuable for safety reasons and to minimize the heat transferred to the case heads. I have not done any experiments to determine if that is really necessary, but its pretty simple to dry the cases: no different than when tumbling them in SSM.

Agreed. Since I deprime, anneal, and then clean with SS media, quenching in water does not add another step. I just drain most of the water and drop the wet brass into the SS media tumbler and we are off with a regular cleaning.

I do have one related question though, in another thread where we discuss cleaning before annealing vs. cleaning after annealing, there was a response that favored the former. The rationale being that some of the carbon crud will react with the brass in the neck if it was annealed with it on. Has anyone done a actual study (vs. a theoretical thought as to what might happen) to see if that is true? The rationale being that it might cause a rough neck and thus affect neck tension.

I'm a "Hand Annealer" and also use the SS media to clean. I clean first and then anneal. I find that it's easier to see the "color line" as it moves down the case and also have cleaner cases when done.

Haven't done any studies but it only makes sense that hot metal in the presence of "crud" doesn't add anything good to the process.

 

[RottenII]

I used the benchsource myself. Tumble in SS media before annealing. Drop from the BC onto a cooking sheet. By the time I shut the torches off and put the bottles away, the brass is cool enough for me to pick up. Never had a problem doing it this way (no quenching).

 

[jonbearman]

Kevin Thomas is right on as my uncle is a metalurgist and says it is not necessary whatsoever.

 

[Webster]

There should never be any annealing of the case head with any reasonable neck area annealing. The case head would have to be well 700F to get softened.

 

[Juma]

Just use a deep socket with an adaptor on a Dewalt. You can see with your own eyes if it is annealing properly. Just dump on cloth after finishing. If you are annealing right it will cool down without forced shut down.

 

[jlow]

There should never be any annealing of the case head with any reasonable neck area annealing. The case head would have to be well 700F to get softened.

I think this is correct. Anyone who has done sodering will tell you that to get an adjacent area that far away hot enough you would really have to blast it with the torch.

 

[amlevin]

There should never be any annealing of the case head with any reasonable neck area annealing. The case head would have to be well 700F to get softened.

I think this is correct. Anyone who has done sodering will tell you that to get an adjacent area that far away hot enough you would really have to blast it with the torch.

Solder could be used as a temperature indicator. If it doesn't melt/flow it's under 420 degrees (for 50/50 solder.) Takes more than that to anneal 70/30 brass.