Pulling Targets - READ

[Steve Blair]

If the conditions warrant it, shoot as fast as you can, it can only get worse.

Exactly ETs allow you to have more control over your shoot as long as you are a good enough shot to control the out come.

[br]
Don't construe my comment as supporting uninterrupted fire. I would support ET's only if they incorporate a delay or we pair fire.

 

[memilanuk]

Bindi,

On the one hand, I think the electronic targets are a wonderful step in the right direction - especially after I got tagged in the head today by a chunk of spindle from a neighboring target while in the pits. I was already in favor of them for precisely this reason - this just drove the point home - literally.

On the other hand... having zero delay and shooters being able to blaze off shots as fast as they register on the screen starts to smack of what I have heard of 600-1000yd Benchrest. No (or very little) emphasis on wind reading - just set the gun up right and fire for effect. I realize its not remotely that simple, but when most people I know who talk about 'machine-gunning' the target or having a 'belt-fed' bolt gun in NRA HP Prone or F-Class are talking about being done in 3-5 minutes as being really fast, and people shooting electronic targets are talking about being done in under 1 minute... it really starts to seem like it would begin to de-emphasize wind reading vs. gun setup.

On the other hand... wait, how many hands do we have here? most electronic target systems I have looked at, and especially the Kongsberg (sp?) system they used in Blair Atholl in 2011 when I shot there gives you no - or very limited - ability to look at other targets and see if that weird high shot was just you, or if there is some bizarre range/topo effect going on out there thats affecting others. No watching in the spotting scope and seeing that the known-good shooter two targets up from you just nerfed one out into the 8-ring - maybe its a good time to wait for the condition to stabilize...

Electronic targets may be the right answer, long term. I think coupled with Fullbore, they would be a great idea. I'm somewhat less enthused about them during a string-fire match, as I feel they could be detrimental to the spirit of the game.

YMMV,

Monte

 

[Immike]

Electronic targets may be the right answer, long term. I think coupled with Fullbore, they would be a great idea. I'm somewhat less enthused about them during a string-fire match, as I feel they could be detrimental to the spirit of the game.



Monte

I'm just wondering what happens when records start falling to the electronic targets.

 

[Bindi2]

Bindi,

On the one hand, I think the electronic targets are a wonderful step in the right direction - especially after I got tagged in the head today by a chunk of spindle from a neighboring target while in the pits. I was already in favor of them for precisely this reason - this just drove the point home - literally.

On the other hand... having zero delay and shooters being able to blaze off shots as fast as they register on the screen starts to smack of what I have heard of 600-1000yd Benchrest. No (or very little) emphasis on wind reading - just set the gun up right and fire for effect. I realize its not remotely that simple, but when most people I know who talk about 'machine-gunning' the target or having a 'belt-fed' bolt gun in NRA HP Prone or F-Class are talking about being done in 3-5 minutes as being really fast, and people shooting electronic targets are talking about being done in under 1 minute... it really starts to seem like it would begin to de-emphasize wind reading vs. gun setup.

On the other hand... wait, how many hands do we have here? most electronic target systems I have looked at, and especially the Kongsberg (sp?) system they used in Blair Atholl in 2011 when I shot there gives you no - or very limited - ability to look at other targets and see if that weird high shot was just you, or if there is some bizarre range/topo effect going on out there thats affecting others. No watching in the spotting scope and seeing that the known-good shooter two targets up from you just nerfed one out into the 8-ring - maybe its a good time to wait for the condition to stabilize...

Electronic targets may be the right answer, long term. I think coupled with Fullbore, they would be a great idea. I'm somewhat less enthused about them during a string-fire match, as I feel they could be detrimental to the spirit of the game.

YMMV,

Monte

The thing about ETs is that it is you and only you for each shot no learning from some other poor sole, they show how bad some shooters condition reading skills really are because they lean on not read. Speed can kill you big time if you miss a change. One thing ETs have shown me is that the current flag system is not good enough for holding FO x ring Aussie style. The rules give a maximum time not a minimum maybe the time should be shorter for ETs to stop time wasters which in time will improve the condition reading skills to a higher level.

 

[Rtheurer]

Speaking of pulling targets..... I witnessed some real poor performance this weekend at a State Championship. Calls to the pit to mark a target, on average 3 times for a 20 shot string on the same target for two days straight. That's 9 calls for a mark in a day. same person. That created an unpleasant experience for a couple of our top shooters who have spent a ton of money on the sport to compete.
Also we had a couple of folks that came, that do not know the rules. That also created a problem. If the bullet breaks the outside of the line the score goes to the higher value, and know the signal for inadvertent pulling the target down from underneath the shooter.
Bring a spotting scope and stool to score when your tasked for scoreing duties. I hate to say it but this is usually F class issue more than the sling guys.
If your going to jump off the cat walk and run to the target shed or tree line please tell the pit boss so that he can inform the line so the whole line of 20 shooters can wait on you to do so without touching there rifles....

During a normal weekend club match that is fine. But during a State championship Regional or Nationals... not so much.

 

[suberjc]

I shot a match one time that the target puller actually came out of the pits and bitched at me for shooting to fast...

Ha Ha LOL. I don't know who or where but I can almost guarantee you I'd like him.

 

[Longtrain]

I pride myself on giving fast service, 5 secs is my goal. At my last match, I got complimented on my service. That was nice to hear, I shoot quickly too, and like that target back in the air. BTW, that shooter returned the favor and gave me great service too.

I complained once to the RO about slow service (literally 25 seconds), he questioned my call, until he watched a few cycles and then radioed the pits to pick it up, they did much better after that call.

 

[noload]

The puller should realize the shooters rhythm, the shooter should try to hold that rhythm. Pit boss should know his weak pullers and tell them what is expected of them, he can helpl with tips before they get under fire. Don't shoot the breeze with the scorers. Take your group conversations off the berm, Shooter, scorer, and puller should act as one machine. Boy wouldn't that be nice.

 

[OIF/OEF]

This may be the wrong way but I watch the berm for impact bad neck injury so I cant stare up for that long. Never take my eyes off the berm. Never look around just watch the berm. If someone comes up to talk to me I have no idea who it is I will not look away from the dirt. That's the way I've always pulled butts in the Marine Corps and if you provide poor target service there another Marines Career could be riding on it so don't be an A&&HOLE and pay attention. I will say this.. before my first match the guys gave me a 30 minute class, watched me run the target up and down and did drills to make sure I had it right and then I proceeded to make a bunch of targets and put them in the carriers LOL. Hey if I'm the new guy I feel that's my job and its a good learning experience. This was at OKC shooting club? Very nice group of guys that walked me through everything and made me feel comfortable puling targets it was a good time.


Very Respectfully

Semper Fidelis

 

[Mikey_P]

This may be the wrong way but I watch the berm for impact bad neck injury so I cant stare up for that long. Never take my eyes off the berm. Never look around just watch the berm. If someone comes up to talk to me I have no idea who it is I will not look away from the dirt.

Semper Fidelis

+1 OIF/OEF. I find that the dirt splash in the berm at least tells me that my target has been shot on and I can then quickly locate the hole and insert the spotter. And, like you, my eyes never move from the berm...

P.S. thank you, OIF/OEF, for your service to our country..

 

[dbramley]

Why doesn't someone with some video editing skills make a "good" video of pit work. From bullet splash to scoring system etc? Post it here and on YouTube? My daughter wanted to pull targets so I went to show her what to expect via a video, nothing worth a darn. I would also like to direct new shooters here when they show interest in our club matches, so when they show up they at least have a clue.

Anyone think this is a good idea and want to take on the task?

Regards,

Dan

If not my daughter and I will work on it, she is 13 and an awesome puller!

 

[jkl]

Dans daughter is a great puller and was seen telling one of her friends there to pull targets with her this summer "Suck it up buttercup". We could use a few more instructors like Dan. His youngest daughter shows signs being a shooter but has decided to hire pullers like her sister. The Harris family also uses Navy training to produce good young shooter and pullers. Same with the Hayes family Ryan and Eric are top notch in the pits and on the line.

Arizona has a bright shooting future.

John

 

[Jdne5b]

Here are 3 videos that might be close to what you're looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL668F7FE5E77137D4

I havent watched them in a while, but they were a help when I was researching what F-class and pulling targets were all about a couple years ago.

(it has the old scoring values on the frame, so that could be updated)

 

[dbramley]

Thanks John, nothing makes me more proud than having a 13yr old daughter willing to "kick ass" to keep pit service up to snuff.

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

Why doesn't someone with some video editing skills make a "good" video of pit work. From bullet splash to scoring system etc? Post it here and on YouTube? My daughter wanted to pull targets so I went to show her what to expect via a video, nothing worth a darn. I would also like to direct new shooters here when they show interest in our club matches, so when they show up they at least have a clue.

Anyone think this is a good idea and want to take on the task?

Regards,

Dan

If not my daughter and I will work on it, she is 13 and an awesome puller!

Dan do you really think a video will help you??? How many times have we tried to explain the process to you!! lol EVEN YOU DAUGHTER IS TIRED OF TRYING TO TEACH YOU. LOL J/K Dan, Your daughter is a great puller and fast if she can pull for Allan. and now a great shooter. Better watch out!!!

For the record. I think novice shooters should be squadded together. Until they learn the ropes. A bad puller can really mess up your rhythm. and good pullers or the pit boss will show a new puller how it's done. But if they are new. They will not get it, their first few times. Trust me I know.

 

[michaelnel]

I have never pulled targets at (or even attended) a sanctioned match. I hope to shoot my first club match in January (600 yards).

My experience with pulling targets (so far) is limited to doing it during practice 600 and 1000 yard LR practice at Sac Valley. During the practices they use NBRSA targets that are white with blue printing and they use markers with fluorescent orange circles with golf tees in the middle. We have to patch the bullet holes with either blue or white stickers. We measure the groups with semi-transparent very dark green plastic rulers that are fairly hard to read accurately.

I do my best, and often that is not all that fast. Fortunately, it's practice, and the shooters seem forgiving. I try to learn what to do by observing, but have not really had any instruction. I would hope that prior to a match someone actually gives the pullers some instruction.

 

[Down South]

This may be the wrong way but I watch the berm for impact bad neck injury so I cant stare up for that long. Never take my eyes off the berm. Never look around just watch the berm. If someone comes up to talk to me I have no idea who it is I will not look away from the dirt.

Semper Fidelis

+1 OIF/OEF. I find that the dirt splash in the berm at least tells me that my target has been shot on and I can then quickly locate the hole and insert the spotter. And, like you, my eyes never move from the berm...

P.S. thank you, OIF/OEF, for your service to our country..

I watch the impact berm as well but sometimes there is no splash of dirt once the hole is big and they keep shooting in the same hole. Some ranges don't have impact berms to watch, Tullahoma TN comes to mind. When no berm is present i try to feel it go through the target when holding the rail of the frame or the hanging rope, whatever you're holding on to. Its definately hard on the neck looking up the whole time trying to see a hole in the target........

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

I have never pulled targets at (or even attended) a sanctioned match. I hope to shoot my first club match in January (600 yards).

My experience with pulling targets (so far) is limited to doing it during practice 600 and 1000 yard LR practice at Sac Valley. During the practices they use NBRSA targets that are white with blue printing and they use markers with fluorescent orange circles with golf tees in the middle. We have to patch the bullet holes with either blue or white stickers. We measure the groups with semi-transparent very dark green plastic rulers that are fairly hard to read accurately.

I do my best, and often that is not all that fast. Fortunately, it's practice, and the shooters seem forgiving. I try to learn what to do by observing, but have not really had any instruction. I would hope that prior to a match someone actually gives the pullers some instruction.

Competitors will always help you. Just most of the time people don't ask for help. If you have a question on scoring or it's so close you aren't sure how to mark it. Ask someone next to you. Or if they called for you to mark a shot and you can't find it. Ask for someone to help you look for it. Don't be embarrassed to ask for help. Because we all have, and sometimes still do.

 

[Scott Harris]

...The Harris family also uses Navy training to produce good young shooter and pullers. ...

John

Navy training John???? That's almost as bad as saying Marine training...and coming so soon after another dismal Army Navy game.....that just hurts.

 

[jkl]

I wondered if you were still reading this I knew it was Army and West Point. I kinda thought it would raise your heart rate. Still a wonderful shooting family and I hope to see you in the sling soon.

John