New Shooters..Giving good Pit Service

[Erik Cortina]

One more thing. Don't tell me "Last round going in the chamber". At this point I have shot 19 shots for score plus sighters. I am focused on the conditions and trying to X my way out of this string. When you say anything different that the score, I'm not expecting it, and sometimes it breaks my concentration because I have to ask "What was that?"
Wait until I take my last shot and then say "You're all out!" Optional is to add "That was the best shooting I have ever seen, you are the most amazing shooter on the planet". ;D

Great thread. I average 5 seconds pulling targets. So I expect the same.

One last thing. The shooter, puller, and score keeper are a team. They are there for each other and no one else. On a recent match I was shooting and had to keep asking my score keeper "Did you get that?" because I could not hear him calling out my shots. After string was over I had a talk with him. He told me he did not want to distract the other shooters by calling my shots out too loud. I explained than he (the score keeper) was there only for me (the shooter) at that time and not to worry about any other shooters. He understood and life went on.
So, make sure your shooter can hear you calling out his shots, get close enough to ensure proper communication.

 

[mgdietrich]

WRONG!!! If the scorer misses shots and the shooter has no way to verify (plot sheet) then the shooter must continue to fire until there are 20 shots for record.

Shooters have a responsibility to know where there scorer is too, that is why I require the scorer to call my shot, if I do not hear a value I ask if they got the previous shot.

 

[ShootDots]

Two (2) years ago I was on the 600 yard line for F-Open at Bayou Rifles. I had a scorer who had been shooting F-Open for quite some time. BEFORE I begin shooting I pull 20 shots out of my case so I KNOW how many I have to shoot. I leave the sighters in the case and pull them out and immediately replace them back in the case upon firing. There is NEVER a question of how many I fired or need to fire. NOW, this scorer, twice in ONE MATCH got my count wrong! I asked him to tell me how he was scoring me after I shoot til I fire again. He told me he looks thru the spotting scope til the target re-appears and tells me the score. We had a cross fire AND a pull-down that was uncalled for and unnecessary. That's where our "problem" originated. I told him to WATCH MY GUN RECOIL, then peer thru the spotting scope and let me know what score he sees.. I think W-A-Y too many scorers simply look thru the spotting scope, never see the rifle recoil and call out a score, whether it was "his" shooter or not, because he does NOT KNOW who actually shot or whether they prematurely pulled the target for whatever reason and then they write that score down and it becomes "law".. From that point on, I decided to do my own scoring. I tell the person scoring that I will pull 20 shots out and we will compare if there is a discrepancy during scoring. I also tell them to WATCH MY RIFLE RECOIL BEFORE peering thru the spotting scope and then let me know what score he sees.
I have avoided "problems" that way before they get to be a "problem"... Anyone who has shot with me knows that there will be NO PROBLEM hearing me call out their scores as I have, AS RALPH KRAMDEN would say: "I have a B-I-G mouth"!!! LOL!!!

 

[Erik Cortina]

ShootDots, the score keeper's job is to keep score, not to make sure your rifle recoils. If he calls out a score you do not agree with or when you did not shoot, it is your responsibility to challenge it.

 

[ShootDots]

Well Eric, I am going to tell him just like I said... If you get squadded on my target, you will get the same schpiel... It helps to eliminate problems BEFORE they become problems...

 

[Erik Cortina]

Well Eric, I am going to tell him just like I said... If you get squadded on my target, you will get the same schpiel... It helps to eliminate problems BEFORE they become problems...

How will score keeper identify a cross fire if he/she is watching your gun? He needs to keep his/her eye on the target at all times and KEEP SCORE as it appears on the target.

 

[Michael Courtney]

Great read and good discussion. I wish my daughter and I had read this before she began competing in F Class. I usually work the pits along side of any inexperienced shooters I'm with to help facilitate fast and accurate work. I also pay close attention when less experienced shooters are scoring to avoid hiccups.

Everyone has different preferences in what they want the scorer to focus on and how much verbal interaction they prefer. A shooter should make sure the scorer knows his/her preferences, and likewise the scorer should also make some efforts to understand and execute the preferences of each shooter.

No matter what one focuses on in the pits (berm, feel, shock wave, paper), there are some cases where the shot is hard to detect. Wet or vegetation covered berms reveal very little. Passage of .224" bullets are harder to detect by most methods, especially if they pass with very little energy. Due diligence is really all anyone can expect, and maintaining a focus for several minutes after a target is raised is harder than noticing the bullet strike within 30 seconds.

 

[ShootDots]

Well Eric, I am going to tell him just like I said... If you get squadded on my target, you will get the same schpiel... It helps to eliminate problems BEFORE they become problems...

How will score keeper identify a cross fire if he/she is watching your gun? He needs to keep his/her eye on the target at all times and KEEP SCORE as it appears on the target.

That is an EASY one Erik! If the target goes down and I did not shoot, I will immediately let the scorer know that I did not shoot! He SHOULD know that I did not shoot because he would NOT have seen the rifle recoil! So then something happened from another shooter down the line or something is going on in the pits! Either way, the scorer WILL KNOW it was not me who caused the target in the pits to go down for whatever reason.. Then from there it will be easy to determine if it was a crossfire or whatever is going on in the pits...

Besides, like YOU stated in your earlier post>>The scorer is there for YOU! If he is there for ME, I want him to do it MY WAY... If something goes wrong from there, I will accept the responsibility... I will take the hickey IF there is one. However, since I have taken that approach, there has been ZERO problems! I like it that way!!

 

[Jay Christopherson]

I know that I am probably in the minority but I rather enjoy working in the pits when my turn comes. And I agree with what Russ said above, good pit service is a must. I was at a big match recently where a fellow was telling another guy in the pits that if you could get it done in 18 to 20 seconds that was good enough. I almost lost my composure. Personally I do my best to give as good as possible, and that means 4 to 7 seconds max...As long as I'm not having to do the dancing monkey gig with shots all over the place.

So great post Russ!

On my first pit turn at each match I keep a count for the first few pulls. As long as I am not hunting all over the target board for holes, my goal is an 8 count (8 seconds roughly) or less. Once I get into rhythm and pick up the shooter's rhythm (assuming they are keeping it near-ish to the center), turning a target in 4 - 7 seconds shouldn't be a problem for most people.

I also have pre-match conversation with the guys I'm squadded with, just to make sure we are all on the same page regarding pit service. I also have a conversation with each shooter on how he'd like me to call score and shots and what my preferences are.

And lastly - score the damn thing like the shooter is your best friend. I've seen/heard guys who "score down" when they are in doubt because they think the "shooter didn't earn it", which is bull$hit.

 

[savageshooter86]

I'm new at this, but I use plot sheet and write score. I'm learning to read conditions so for me this is helping me out. I have caught a condition and if it was an x I just shoot Mr next round quick then wrote on plot sheet after I lost that condition.

Good thread to remind everyone the importance of pit service

 

[ShootDots]

There are things going on in the pits that the line does not always know about. Sometimes a target goes down for scoring because of a cross-fire. Sometimes it goes down because the puller THOUGHT a shot was on his target, when in fact there was none. Sometimes it could be for an unforeseen target repair... Communication is forever lacking because there are not enough walkie-talkies and people in the pits are yelling to someone who has a walkie-talkie about what is happening on their respective target, to inform the line what's going on.. I cross-fired last summer at 1000 yard but it was not determined right off and we did not know (at least the line did not know) I cross-fired. Once the pit crew came back, we found out what had transpired.. That's probably not all that uncommon>>but it was my first cross-fire during scoring, so I can't say specifically to that point..

 

[johnnyi]

great post. Been to 1 match and was fortunate enough to be squadded with some great shooters that showed me the ropes. I did struggle a little at first with the pit routine, however had a good fella in the pits give me the advise as above and got organized quickly.

 

[diego-ted]

Last year at the world's in Raton, I was squaded with a couple of older gentlemen that did not have the physical ability to pull targets, so I pulled and let them mark? LOCALLY we have some shooters that move very slow! What are you to do? I guess they should hire pullers?

Diego

 

[ShootDots]

Yes, Diego, that not only can be a pain, it can cost points... However, since there is no "R-E-A-L" money involved, I look at it this way: They are older and they have "earned their stripes and my respect" so I just let it go... Maybe one day I will still be competing and I will be so old and broke down I am slower than molasses in January>>BUT I am still competing and maybe the younger "kids" will afford me the same latitude I afford the older guys today... Hopefully!

 

[Savage99]

Fast pit service was never a problem when I shot.

However the posters here seem sincere about it.

It's been my experiance that with the minute a shot I had there was plenty of time. Of course sometimes they did not see the bullet hole what with some of the tiny calibers some are using now.

 

[Cigarcop]

Last year at the world's in Raton, I was squaded with a couple of older gentlemen that did not have the physical ability to pull targets, so I pulled and let them mark? LOCALLY we have some shooters that move very slow! What are you to do? I guess they should hire pullers?

Diego

I've paid for pullers that should have given me money.... What can you do except smile and have at it when the target finally gets put back up!!......You don't always get what you pay for!! Lol

 

[Cochran]

Best thread in a long time Russ

Almost all pit problems can be cured by running four relays with two pullers on every target.

As for scoring, I have had score keepers ask if I want the scores called out. I always reply 'loud as possible'. I also have them get as close to me as possible. Hate it when some scorer plops down his big fold out easy chair eight feet behind me like he's getting ready for his nap.

I never ask a shooter if he wants me to call out his score. The rule book says a scorer will call out the value of each shot. I also believe it says if the shooter does not want the value called out then he forfeits the right to challenge the recorded scores.

 

[MNFinn]

Food thread, and it has taught this new shooter some good stuff to know. Ive only shot 2 matches so far, so I'm still finding a rhythm in pulling....hoping to shoot 5 matches this year, that should help. My main problem is, being 5'5" its a reach pulling down and pushing up targets, I know that slows me down.....having shot squadded with Masters and High Masters helped.....they kept all of their shots in a nice small area, making it easier to service their targets.....wish I could return that favor, I know they must be dancing when I shoot.

For scoring, i give score, and generally, as Ive been asked to, I say what number shot for score ( usually sounds like "X fifteen on target), but I will go with what a shooter asks. When I'm scoring, I watch the trail of the bullet flying, so far this has worked well for me, as it has been fairly easy to tell my shooters bullet flying, from those on either side.....still learning though, so hopefully my target pulling and scoring will get better

 

[Immike]

Best thread in a long time Russ

Almost all pit problems can be cured by running four relays with two pullers on every target.

As for scoring, I have had score keepers ask if I want the scores called out. I always reply 'loud as possible'. I also have them get as close to me as possible. Hate it when some scorer plops down his big fold out easy chair eight feet behind me like he's getting ready for his nap.

I never ask a shooter if he wants me to call out his score. The rule book says a scorer will call out the value of each shot. I also believe it says if the shooter does not want the value called out then he forfeits the right to challenge the recorded scores.

Good info, I believe somewhere there is a delay limit and you get another sighter. You may be the person that can find that rule. I was told at the world match that if a delay ran past 2 minutes you get a sighter shot before you continue with score. Can you confirm this?

 

[Steve Blair]

10.1.8 Interrupted Fire - If a range ceases fire during the firing of a relay in individual matches at ranges of 500 yards or over, single or multiple stage, one sighting shot will be allowed when firing again starts. If an individual competitor is delayed over 2 consecutive minutes through no fault of his own and is allowed additional firing time during the firing of an individual match only at ranges of 500 yards or over, single or multiple stage, one sighting shot will be allowed when his firing again starts. In both instances above, the competitor will be given one minute additional time. The competitor has the option of firing a sighter and must inform the score keeper that he is or is not going to fire a sighter before the shot is fired. If a sighter is fired, it must be recorded on the scorecard by the score keeper. This rule applies to all individual matches whether or not sighters were given at the start of the match. [br]
In cases of a Cease Fire at distances less than 500 yards when sighters were allowed in the match and a delay of five minutes or more has occurred, then one additional sighter will be allowed at the restart of firing. [br]
Note: In the event of a single target delay or breakdown, it is the competitor’s responsibility to notify the Range Officer of an apparent delay with his target. The Range Officer will time any delay, and determine if sufficient time has elapsed to allow an extra sighting shot. If sufficient time has elapsed, the Range Officer will then direct that an extra sighting shot may be taken. The Range Officer will note on the competitor’s scorecard that extra time has been allowed, and will initial the value of the extra sighting shot, which must not be placed in the scoring area provided for record shots.