Proof research barrels

[Clancy]

I may just have to set mine on a rest and shoot a series of targets.

 

[fredo]

Even if some truthful facts concerning Proof wrapped barrels came forward, you are not going to believe it anyway. Stick a fork in it and call it done.

BULL$HIT

Show me the 'proof', and I'll buy one RIGHT NOW and build a rifle on it
Heck, I've had guys PM me to give me a "deal" on them, and I turned them down
I'll pay my swith to order one for FULL PRICE, and build a rifle around it.
For crisssakes, I've build rifles for dumber reasons than this, so...

Someone, somewhere, gimme something. I'll be a man of my word and buy one. BUT...

Fact remains...

if a wrapped barrel is only 'just as good' as a steel one, then explain what the extra expense buys me???

As of yet, the only thing of any substance is : "they look cool".

WHAT AM I MISSING???

 

[Milo 2.0]

^^^ 3 shots at 1K

4 shots @ 500

The rifle

I did not buy the Proof to shoot benchrest, just some steel and a little hunting, it works on this end

 

[Milo 2.0]

BULL$HIT

Show me the 'proof', and I'll buy one RIGHT NOW and build a rifle on it
Heck, I've had guys PM me to give me a "deal" on them, and I turned them down
I'll pay my swith to order one for FULL PRICE, and build a rifle around it.
For crisssakes, I've build rifles for dumber reasons than this, so...

Someone, somewhere, gimme something. I'll be a man of my word and buy one. BUT...

Fact remains...

if a wrapped barrel is only 'just as good' as a steel one, then explain what the extra expense buys me???

As of yet, the only thing of any substance is : "they look cool".

WHAT AM I MISSING???

I don't care if you buy one, I may not buy a 2nd one, get over yourself.

 

[L.Sherm]

We all spend are money how we see fit just like Chevy, Ford vs BMW or Mercedes

 

[fredo]

I may just have to set mine on a rest and shoot a series of targets.

Please do!
I'd sure like to see how much better it shoots than a steel barrel that's 1/2 the price...

In case you missed it, the quandry is about price vs. performance. So, if your wrapped barrel can shoot only as good as a steel one, what's the point of showing targets?

And if we're speaking to 'weight saving' hunters, who gives a flip about aggregate group size?

Hunters want SHOT #1 to be boringly repeatable, first & foremost. Does wrapping a barrel somehow improve on that likelihood?

 

[fredo]

I don't care if you buy one, I may not buy a 2nd one, get over yourself.

Be easier for you to get over me, for calling your dismissive BS out...

Funny how the same type of guy who'd call BS (on the hide) on the significance of a single group pic, would now use them to prove a (flawed) point!

 

[Milo 2.0]

Be easier for you to get over me, for calling your dismissive BS out...

Funny how the same type of guy who'd call BS (on the hide) on the significance of a single group pic, would now use them to prove a (flawed) point!

Were you born a whiner, or did you grow into it. Trust me, I'm just having some fun with you, I can tell you that you are about as insignificant to me as my first morning fart was.

 

[BoydAllen]

I think that the main reason for people buying CF wrapped barrels is weight. Based on my friend's rifle building and shooting experiences, Proof Research barrels shoot well, but my friend has only built rifles for big game hunting with those barrels, and for that, they have shot really fine. His customers are not particularly price sensitive. They want what they want, and can afford it.

 

[fredo]

Were you born a whiner, or did you grow into it. Trust me, I'm just having some fun with you, I can tell you that you are about as insignificant to me as my first morning fart was.

LMAO
Having at least as much fun poking hole after hole in your attempts to dismiss me. So insignificant, yet, here you are...

Let's get the thread back to the finer points of paying (or overpaying) for wrapped barrels, and reasons behind the decision. Or, quit while you're behind?

 

[Milo 2.0]

LMAO
Or, quit while you're behind?

Behind?

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Fredo, please stop saying a a fluted steel barrel will nearly match the weight of a Proof carbon barrel with the same contour. Thats competely inaccurate. Anyone who's owned fluted barrels knows it doesn't shave much weight. It also induces uneven stresses in the steel and therefor the reason you never see fluted barrels on the firing lines of serious competitions.

I have not yet found an unhappy customer with a Proof barrel either. Some may think they are a bit too expensive and that's fine, but everyone I talk to or read about say the barrels shoot very well.

If the price of a CF barrel bothers a person too much, then they simply shouldnt buy it. Problem solved. Nobody every claimed CF barrels shoot "BETTER" than steel barrels. They just weigh less and supposedly cool faster. And yes, I personally think they look really cool as well

 

[Clancy]

Please do!
I'd sure like to see how much better it shoots than a steel barrel that's 1/2 the price...

In case you missed it, the quandry is about price vs. performance. So, if your wrapped barrel can shoot only as good as a steel one, what's the point of showing targets?

And if we're speaking to 'weight saving' hunters, who gives a flip about aggregate group size?

Hunters want SHOT #1 to be boringly repeatable, first & foremost. Does wrapping a barrel somehow improve on that likelihood?

I think pretty much everyone in this thread will agree that you’re the one missing the point.

 

[B23]

Fredo certainly doesn't need me to defend his position so that is not my attempt but, I think, I understand his position on this and it's not that he is necessarily trying to be obtuse, but rather he is pointing out that there is really no benefit to a CF wrapped barrel over an all steel barrel, other than peoples perception they're better, and that is largely based on if you're drinking the CF barrel kool-aid propaganda. I think if we are all being completely honest, the majority of CF barrel purchases are largely do to how they look and their cool factor. But, for some reason, nobody but a few of us are willing to admit they, would or have, bought one for no other reason other than they thought they looked good/cool.

Like I've said multiple times before, I think CF wrapped barrels look pretty cool, at some point, probably within the next 365 days, I'll very likely own a Proof or Hardy CF barrel, but if I do purchase one, it won't be because I think they do, ANYTHING, any better than a all steel barrel.

 

[FURMAN]

I do not think anyone has said a carbon barrel is better than a steel barrel for everyone or every situation but to say carbon barrels have no advantage over steel is just flat out ignorance or denial. The two advantages that I care about are 1) for the same weight I can get a stiffer barrel. That has, repeatedly, given me a wider accuracy node when comparing a thin steel barrel vs carbon of the same weight. I am not saying better ultimate accuracy. I am saying a wider tune. I am a long range hunter. A wide accuracy node is important. I hunt in the mountains. Lightweight is important to me. 2) It allows me to run a larger muzzle brake with larger threads without the physical limitations of a pencil barrel and without being hideously ugly. This allows more recoil reduction for my lightweight rifle and allows me to spot my shots. If those are not important to you or you don't believe it great, as stated multiple times in this thread, don't buy one. I doubt any carbon barrel users are going to miss you not using them. In the end I end up with a lighter rifle than I would if I were to use a steel barrel contour of acceptable, to me, weight. I can not, for the life of me, understand why Fredo is still posting in this thread. It is obvious he hates carbon barrels and I could not care less. It is your money spend it as you wish. If I were shooting competition and shooting a barrel or two out each year I would just run a heavy steel barrel as am sure most would. I will say up until last year I did not believe carbon barrels were able to shoot to the same accuracy as a steal. I have found that to absolutely not be the case. The five I have had shoot just as good as any barrel I have had.

 

[alinwa]

OK...... for some of us it ain't just about A NY THING being talked about here.......and it certainly ain't about "feelings" and "hating" and all the other liberal BS being bandied about.

Let me illustrate.

In my real job, I pour concrete. I'm an expert, a contractor, a guy who gets PAID to know stuff and to help people spend their money wisely. In my business there's a product known as the "ICF System" where you pour concrete into styrofoam forms to build a house. There's huge money to be made using this system. And we do a very few of them.....I have 2 on schedule as I type...... because the dirty little secret is I BELIEVE THEY'RE A SCAM. When I'm asked, as a professional, "what's your opinion of ICF I have to be truthful. I'm simply not a believer.

I'm not saying I'm RIGHT!

I'm saying I'm not a believer.

And I'm firm enough in my position that I've thrown away hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of work because I SIM PLY DO NOT LI KE TH AT BRA ND OF KOOL ADE

Don't believe me? This from my website....... from 12yrs ago to present.... http://sierraconcretefoundations.com/services-alternative-foundations.php

When it comes to cf-wrapping of bbls....... I'm just not a believer.

And I have one for sale right now! A brandie-new test-monkey one on a brandie new Kelbly Atlas bedded into an HS Precision setup AND with 2 other same-weight SS Match barrel fitted to the same outfit! Some say I SHOULD be a believer..... I could sell these things as fast as I can make them up. And I know guys who do exactly that. But until I see one performing as touted


I'm remaining an unbeliever.

I'm not intentionally badmouthing them...... I'm just saying that when people ask me I say "IMO a slimmer, conventional steel barrel of the same weight will shoot as good"

And when someone says "CF makes it stiffer and thereby the tuning nodes are wider" I simply avoid that discussion as discussions between the laws of physics and the laws of "belief" can only be political


or religious



and neither are allowed here

 

[FURMAN]

If you don’t believe a carbon barrel that weighs the same as a given steel barrel is stiffer than I would say the discussion is over because that is a fact. Depending on the fiber and epoxy it’s usually 2-5 times stiffer for the same weight. The funny thing about facts is they don’t require your belief. Now, as already stated many times, if that doesn’t mean anything to you great don’t use them. I have developed loads for several sub 3 lbs steel barrels and they have been accurate but the tune window was extremely small. My carbon barrels have all had much wider tune windows just as my varmint contour or even full bull steal barrels have only they weigh almost half. I don’t need to “believe” it as you say because the targets don’t lie. I could not care less what material is screwed on to my action. I only care about how accurate it is in many conditions as possible, at a given weight. I don’t care what it costs. My hunts are too expensive, both monetarily and time wise to worry about equipment cost to an extent. The funniest thing about this thread to me is the only ones that don’t like carbon have zero experience with them. Don’t like carbon? Here comes the broken record. Don’t buy them.

 

[alinwa]

If you don’t believe a carbon barrel that weighs the same as a given steel barrel is stiffer than I would say the discussion is over because that is a fact. Depending on the fiber and epoxy it’s usually 2-5 times stiffer for the same weight. The funny thing about facts is they don’t require your belief. Now, as already stated many times, if that doesn’t mean anything to you great don’t use them. I have developed loads for several sub 3 lbs steel barrels and they have been accurate but the tune window was extremely small. My carbon barrels have all had much wider tune windows just as my varmint contour or even full bull steal barrels have only they weigh almost half. I don’t need to “believe” it as you say because the targets don’t lie. I could not care less what material is screwed on to my action. I only care about how accurate it is in many conditions as possible, at a given weight. I don’t care what it costs. My hunts are too expensive, both monetarily and time wise to worry about equipment cost to an extent. The funniest thing about this thread to me is the only ones that don’t like carbon have zero experience with them. Don’t like carbon? Here comes the broken record. Don’t buy them.

uhhhh..... here's the problem. Well, one of the problems with your contentions

STIFFER=SMALLER tuning windows.

Fact.

A stiffer barrel has narrower tuning windows.

Always has, always will. At least that's the PHYSICal explanation but, as per usual

"I Can Explain It To You But I Can't Understand It For You"

See, facts is funny things.....

 

[MikeMcCasland]

I can't speak for their CF barrels, but I did put one of their full stainless/cut-rifled barrels on an AR10 in .260 Remington. It's well made, and shoots like a dream; better than the Lilja I had on before, and cleans up as easy as my Krieger or Bartlein.


They make a good blank for sure; I would imagine it doesn't get "worse" with the barrel contoured down and wrapped with CF.

 

[Macropod]

Sometimes I laugh about the lengths people go to save weight. For a lot of folk a few inches around the waistline would be a better proposition.

Not that I can make claims in that area...

Kind of like overweight sportsbike riders buying alloy accessories to save a lb or 2 on their bikes. Drop twenty pounds in that game and it will make a big difference.

I do understand the desirability of a light rifle when on foot in the mountains though.