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Project S-Match (from the mid 1800’s until now are we all just expecting way too much from our beloved 22 Long Rifle)

High Noon

Silver $$ Contributor
A few months ago Timo posted a thread on Rimfire Accuracy site entitled “22 LR is ammo from hell” . It certainly was a thought provoking title and thread to say the least as Timo is a very experienced shooter and a well respected technical guy. He also seems to have a good relationship with Lapua which manufactures some of the finest if not the finest 22 ammo on the planet at this time. To be honest since this post was made I just haven’t been able to stop thinking about it and I hope after reading this you won’t be able to let it go either!

Is as Timo said “22 LR is ammo from hell” or are we all just expecting way too much? That’s the question I’ve been pondering for the past few months. I decided to study the complete history of the 22 Long Rifle cartridge. It’s a long and fascinating one to say the least. One thing I know for sure it was never originally designed as a match cartridge! It simply evolved through the years as servicemen arrived home from the wars and started competing with their rifles. Schools and universities put together shooting teams and informal shoots were popping up all around the country. The ammo and rifle makers started refining their products to find the edge in accuracy. In front of me are two beautiful classic match rifles a 1952 Remington Model 37 Rangemaster ( what a great name!) and a 1962 Winchester Model 52D. Walnut and rust blued steel to compete at the highest levels. And there were others …the rimfire accuracy game was on! Fast forward to rimfire benchrest with precision actions and barrels using improved match ammo but still the original case of over a hundred years ago. It begs the question are we all expecting just too much from a cartridge that was never really designed as a match cartridge from the beginning?

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BF64EF74-962C-44B3-ABD9-8E67D9823279.jpeg
7D6AC092-A889-46DF-A575-6A8BBC3B0498.jpeg
My background. I’m a relatively new rimfire benchrest shooter but have been involved with the small calibers most of my life. I know how it feels to have just one shot go unexpectedly out when you got a great target going in a match. I’ve now shot enough and have experienced those rare highs when they handed me a first place ribbon and high X count sticker to losing a shot or two for unexplained reasons. Trust me, I’ve competed in centerfire benchrest and ran out of excuses long ago. I accept my bad shots and am not ashamed to confess my poor shooting but I do struggle when I’ve done my part with the conditions and gun handling and yet a bullet sails way out, that my friend is tough to take. But I do…we all do.

Like I said I’m relatively new to the match rimfire but not to the wonderful small calibers. I’ve actually devoted most of my life to them. What started out as an unknown writer to buy barrels and bullets turned into a life long passion for the small calibers. So much so I even started my own magazine Small Caliber News so I could get our small caliber projects out on our terms. The freedom and speed of these forums to share our information are really unbelievable compared to the old days. It’s not an easy thing to start a magazine but my gamble paid off and helped us launch a lot of new small caliber products such as the twenty calibers and even the 17 HMR.

Through the magazine I met a lot of very interesting and knowledgeable people from around the world but none more interesting than my friend Frank Tirrell. From the very first call to our most recent Frank would say “listen to me son” which meant shut up I’ve got something technical to discuss with you! Frank doesn’t mix words and once he dedicates himself to a certain project he won’t quit until it’s solved. As an engineer, unlimited centerfire benchrest shooter and after working with Ed Shilen for years Frank is Mr. Precision. When he retired from Shilen Rifles he built his own test tunnel and range to just test rimfires to the highest standards. I still can’t figure out why he ever called me as my experience with a rimfire was testing a Kimber and telling a story about my squirrel rifles. We put a few high grade rimfires on the cover over the years but as you know a full blown match rimfire is a totally different game. One day Frank called me while I was deep into testing a new twenty caliber cartridge. He went on and on about some lead ring problem he was having in his unlimited rimfire test rifle. That’s right he built an unlimited test rifle just to figure all this rimfire madness out. I think during our conversation he could tell I was losing focus and for the first time said “ listen to me son” with a few choice words thrown in! This lead ring thing was now driving both of us nuts and I was running out of shooting time so to get him off the phone I said I’ll send you some of our super duper Woodchuck Den lube. He cussed a little more but eventually hung up. Then about a week later the phone rang and it was Frank and he said son you have done something that has never been done in over a hundred years…I said Frank what are you talking about…. he said I’ve been using your product you sent and there is absolutely no lead ring! He was bore scoping every single round! That was just my first match rimfire project with Frank. We had solved the lead ring issue but it didn’t take Frank too long to realize there was just so much we could do with the match ammo that was available. Frank soon figured out many of the issues with the match ammo and what it would take to solve them. There were some that I couldn’t publish like the “Match Rimfire Myth”. To prove all this was another big challenge and he called one afternoon again while I was again at the range testing and said “listen to me son” we have to make our own match ammo. I said how we going to do that…he said I’m not sure but I think I’ve got the correct case length figured out but need precision bullets. He went on “son your a precision bullet maker and I need your help”. I said Frank I make precision match centerfire bullets not lead bullets. He said I’ll send you a print you can order the dies and hung up. Frank had really helped me a lot I think at that time he had wrote nine articles on match rimfires for our Small Caliber News magazine and he was on our technical team. I owed him. The bullet print arrived and I reached out to one of our tool and die makers for help. He agreed to make the dies and I paid for them. Frank had shorter rimfire cases ordered from one of the leading match rimfire companies but unfortunately in the end they backed out. We were still able to move forward and see some outstanding improvements over the match ammo of the day which Frank told me recently was better than any match ammo made today! Over the years Frank figured this match rimfire madness out and knows the formula to true match rimfire ammo.

F822AECB-5DFF-4C4F-8FA9-CD3488DBED00.jpeg

1670552638002.jpeg

So how do we make Franks and every match rimfire shooters dream of true match ammo come true? Well I’ve been down this road many times before. When I started my own magazine to really help me launch the twenty calibers naysayers told me it would never fly, when I worked behind the scenes to help Hornady in successfully launch the 17 HMR which by the way broke every conceivable ammo and firearm production records when people including some I can’t mention even today said we were crazy. I could go on and on but I was able to bring people and companies together to successfully produce new small caliber products. Frank knows the path to rimfire precision and I know there are enough influential people out there who could make this happen. I can already hear the doubters but remember we can all use our existing shooting platforms just have new barrels or old ones set back. And before some chase me out of town let me say I’m not trying to replace our beloved old 22 rimfire just add a true match rimfire totally designed from the ground up. Project S-MATCH

Todd A.Kindler
Founder & Editor of Small Caliber News
 
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A few months ago Timo posted a thread on Rimfire Accuracy site entitled “22 LR is ammo from hell” . It certainly was a thought provoking title and thread to say the least as Timo is a very experienced shooter and a well respected technical guy. He also seems to have a good relationship with Lapua which manufactures some of the finest if not the finest 22 ammo on the planet at this time. To be honest since this post was made I just haven’t been able to stop thinking about it and I hope after reading this you won’t be able to let it go either!

Is as Timo said “22 LR is ammo from hell” or are we all just expecting way too much? That’s the question I’ve been pondering for the past few months. I decided to study the complete history of the 22 Long Rifle cartridge. It’s a long and fascinating one to say the least. One thing I know for sure it was never originally designed as a match cartridge! It simply evolved through the years as servicemen arrived home from the wars and started competing with their rifles. Schools and universities put together shooting teams and informal shoots were popping up all around the country. The ammo and rifle makers started refining their products to find the edge in accuracy. In front of me are two beautiful classic match rifles a 1952 Remington Model 37 Rangemaster ( what a great name!) and a 1962 Winchester Model 52D. Walnut and rust blued steel to compete at the highest levels. And there were others …the rimfire accuracy game was on! Fast forward to rimfire benchrest with precision actions and barrels using improved match ammo but still the original case of over a hundred years ago. It begs the question are we all expecting just too much from a cartridge that was never really designed as a match cartridge from the beginning?

View attachment 1390602






View attachment 1390603
View attachment 1390609
My background. I’m a relatively new rimfire benchrest shooter but have been involved with the small calibers most of my life. I know how it feels to have just one shot go unexpectedly out when you got a great target going in a match. I’ve now shot enough and have experienced those rare highs when they handed me a first place ribbon and high X count sticker to losing a shot or two for unexplained reasons. Trust me, I’ve competed in centerfire benchrest and ran out of excuses long ago. I accept my bad shots and am not ashamed to confess my poor shooting but I do struggle when I’ve done my part with the conditions and gun handling and yet a bullet sails way out, that my friend is tough to take. But I do…we all do.

Like I said I’m relatively new to the match rimfire but not to the wonderful small calibers. I’ve actually devoted most of my life to them. What started out as an unknown writer to buy barrels and bullets turned into a life long passion for the small calibers. So much so I even started my own magazine Small Caliber News so I could get our small caliber projects out on our terms. The freedom and speed of these forums to share our information are really unbelievable compared to the old days. It’s not an easy thing to start a magazine but my gamble paid off and helped us launch a lot of new small caliber products such as the twenty calibers and even the 17 HMR.

Through the magazine I met a lot of very interesting and knowledgeable people from around the world but none more interesting than my friend Frank Tirrell. From the very first call to our most recent Frank would say “listen to me son” which meant shut up I’ve got something technical to discuss with you! Frank doesn’t mix words and once he dedicates himself to a certain project he won’t quit until it’s solved. As an engineer, unlimited centerfire benchrest shooter and after working with Ed Shilen for years Frank is Mr. Precision. When he retired from Shilen Rifles he built his own test tunnel and range to just test rimfires to the highest standards. I still can’t figure out why he ever called me as my experience with a rimfire was testing a Kimber and telling a story about my squirrel rifles. We put a few high grade rimfires on the cover over the years but as you know a full blown match rimfire is a totally different game. One day Frank called me while I was deep into testing a new twenty caliber cartridge. He went on and on about some lead ring problem he was having in his unlimited rimfire test rifle. That’s right he built an unlimited test rifle just to figure all this rimfire madness out. I think during our conversation he could tell I was losing focus and for the first time said “ listen to me son” with a few choice words thrown in! This lead ring thing was now driving both of us nuts and I was running out of shooting time so to get him off the phone I said I’ll send you some of our super duper Woodchuck Den lube. He cussed a little more but eventually hung up. Then about a week later the phone rang and it was Frank and he said son you have done something that has never been done in over a hundred years…I said Frank what are you talking about…. he said I’ve been using your product you sent and there is absolutely no lead ring! He was bore scoping every single round! That was just my first match rimfire project with Frank. We had solved the lead ring issue but it didn’t take Frank too long to realize there was just so much we could do with the match ammo that was available. Frank soon figured out many of the issues with the match ammo and what it would take to solve them. There were some that I couldn’t publish like the “Match Rimfire Myth”. To prove all this was another big challenge and he called one afternoon again while I was again at the range testing and said “listen to me son” we have to make our own match ammo. I said how we going to do that…he said I’m not sure but I think I’ve got the correct case length figured out but need precision bullets. He went on “son your a precision bullet maker and I need your help”. I said Frank I make precision match centerfire bullets not lead bullets. He said I’ll send you a print you can order the dies and hung up. Frank had really helped me a lot I think at that time he had wrote nine articles on match rimfires for our Small Caliber News magazine and he was on our technical team. I owed him. The bullet print arrived and I reached out to one of our tool and die makers for help. He agreed to make the dies and I paid for them. Frank had shorter rimfire cases ordered from one of the leading match rimfire companies but unfortunately in the end they backed out. We were still able to move forward and see some outstanding improvements over the match ammo of the day which Frank told me recently was better than any match ammo made today! Over the years Frank figured this match rimfire madness out and knows the formula to true match rimfire ammo.

View attachment 1390617

View attachment 1390618

So how do we make Franks and every match rimfire shooters dream of true match ammo come true? Well I’ve been down this road many times before. When I started my own magazine to really help me launch the twenty calibers naysayers told me it would never fly, when I worked behind the scenes to help Hornady in successfully launch the 17 HMR which by the way broke every conceivable ammo and firearm production records when people including some I can’t mention even today said we were crazy. I could go on and on but I was able to bring people and companies together to successfully produce new small caliber products. Frank knows the path to rimfire precision and I know there are enough influential people out there who could make this happen. I can already hear the doubters but remember we can all use our existing shooting platforms just have new barrels or old ones set back. And before some chase me out of town let me say I’m not trying to replace our beloved old 22 rimfire just add a true match rimfire totally designed from the ground up. Project S-MATCH

Todd A.Kindler
Founder & Editor of Small Caliber News
Todd,

You have piqued our interest, please tell us more about this improved rimfire round.

The basic design is very flawed from an accuracy standpoint. One can argue which elements are the worst features. It will be interesting to see how these can be addressed.

The quality control element is solvable but only by highly controlled small lot runs. This reason alone has all but stopped development by the large ammo companies.

Current thinking in the industry seems to be "we can sell all we can make so why bother".

Added to this, current rules from our sanctioning bodies prohibit custom ammo (low production) from being used in competition. Even so. I'm sure there are many that would like to see rimfires perform like centerfires.

TKH
 
Thanks 1Merlin!

Tony,

First thanks for taking time to respond.

You may have said it best; “The basic design is very flawed from an accuracy standpoint.” That was my point above, it was never designed as a match or benchrest cartridge and it just simply evolved into a match cartridge over the many years. Now please let me compare that to centerfire benchrest that I’m much more familiar with. Case capacity: If you look at very early benchrest shooting using the larger cartridges it didn’t take Mike Walker long to introduce the 222 Remington that ruled the roost for many years. Then with the introduction of the sporter class requiring 6mm and above another major design improvement evolved by Dr. Palmisano and Ferris Pindell with the introduction of the 6 PPC. My point is match case capacity evolves for one reason or another for supreme accuracy. Unfortunately the 22 LR was born with just too much case capacity for match shooting according to Frank Tirrell and other knowledgeable rimfire experts. So as the precision rimfire match game continued to improve it was more and more obvious the 140 plus year old design was showing its age. Just think of all the things precision action makers and gunsmiths have done to compensate for the powder not filling the case correctly such as six o’clock firing pins. So as we make a list of improvements for our totally new rimfire design…. and hopefully others with much more experience can weigh in as we move along in this journey with the optimum case capacity.
1670648349457.png

I’m my opinion one of the worst features you can actually see with your naked eye. The lead bullet. As a custom match centerfire bullet maker with over 25 years experience I can’t honestly see how we ever shoot half as good as we do with match rimfire ammo. I’ve recently looked at a top match ammo brand and the leading front band on those bullets were just hideous. Then you look at the pulled bullets with all the different grooves, which I feel are unnecessary and the very important base is just unbelievable. Look at the bullets Frank made from our custom dies above and compare those with the bullets we’re trying to compete with btw those are rejects! I can’t believe we can’t mass produce considerably better bullets. On the way to a small rimfire match today my good friend Fred and I were discussing this very topic and it is amazing to us how well we are able to shoot with this ammo but maybe that’s also why top perfect scores and small groups are so tough to come by.

You mention, "we can sell all we can make so why bother". We hear this too and it’s totally unacceptable in my world and it should be for everyone else's shelling out hard earned dollars for top ammo. As I mentioned before I made precision match grade bullets and I too could sell all I could make but I never compromised on quality. In fact my brand label was Gold on the label for a reason. They were made on the finest precision bullet making dies and jackets on the planet and I made them to the best of my ability never compromised one time. Think of what a precision shooter has invested in his precision rifle, fine optics, tuning and travel in hopes of winning and being let down by ammo or bullets. …ammo companies if you compromise on your top match ammo brands and don’t take pride to produce the very best you can do all of us a favor and simply get out of the match ammo business!

Before I wrap this up I really do appreciate the ammo companies and have been fortunate enough to work with a few over the years and fully understand all their struggles in today’s environment. However there is simply no room to compromise when it comes to accuracy. It may come down to smaller companies fully dedicated to producing only match ammo. I’ve seen this happen in the centerfire world with match jackets, bullets and brass and it’s been very positive.

Hope this provides a few answers and helps us on our journey to develop a brand new 22 rimfire match cartridge!
 
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The early rimfire rounds were originally loaded with black powder and that would have filled the case.
Black powder was at it apex of technology in the 1880's arguably, better than today. Many schutzen shooters shot some impressive groups back in the day.
Tony, with your research have you ever studied the use of black powder in 22 rimfire. Having shot black powder silhouette i can only imagine shooting small 22 caliber black powder loads and the fouling control it would involve. But i wonder what would be possible?
At least with the smoke you would know what direction the wind was coming from
 
High noon
EXCELLENT post thank you, one of the better post I’ve seen in a long time, I really enjoy learning the history of about anything.

Joey
 
The early rimfire rounds were originally loaded with black powder and that would have filled the case.
Black powder was at it apex of technology in the 1880's arguably, better than today. Many schutzen shooters shot some impressive groups back in the day.
Tony, with your research have you ever studied the use of black powder in 22 rimfire. Having shot black powder silhouette i can only imagine shooting small 22 caliber black powder loads and the fouling control it would involve. But i wonder what would be possible?
At least with the smoke you would know what direction the wind was coming from

No, I have never studied the use of black powder in rimfire rounds. I'm sure it would be interesting, but I've spent most of my time trying to learn how to win matches. The rules do not allow messing with the ammo, so I have left it alone.

Over the years the go to ammo has changed many times. Eley Tennex ruled for a long time. Then Lapua gold box until the factory blew up. Then Eley Benchrest gold was on top. Then back to Eley both red and black box. Then along about 2014 some say 2012. Lapua came back and it has stayed on top.

However, it may be changing again. The IR 50/50 Indoor Nationals saw Eley on top. But we will have to wait and see if that was just an anomality.

Notice I didn't mention RWS R-50 or the Fiocchi. But I should, they both have had a small following in the states. I can tell you firsthand the Germans can kick your butt with R-50 bought in Germany. Don't know if it is different from their export line but I know they wore me out with it when I was stationed in Germany.

The ammo chase has caused a lot of shooters to drop out. As unpleasant as it is you have to do it or those that do will win.

Please do mistake what I'm saying. I am not saying it is all in the ammo. There are a whole lot of moving parts to being a successful RFBR shooters. Any one of them can take you down. Ammo is just one.

TKH
 
No, I have never studied the use of black powder in rimfire rounds. I'm sure it would be interesting, but I've spent most of my time trying to learn how to win matches. The rules do not allow messing with the ammo, so I have left it alone.

Over the years the go to ammo has changed many times. Eley Tennex ruled for a long time. Then Lapua gold box until the factory blew up. Then Eley Benchrest gold was on top. Then back to Eley both red and black box. Then along about 2014 some say 2012. Lapua came back and it has stayed on top.

However, it may be changing again. The IR 50/50 Indoor Nationals saw Eley on top. But we will have to wait and see if that was just an anomality.

Notice I didn't mention RWS R-50 or the Fiocchi. But I should, they both have had a small following in the states. I can tell you firsthand the Germans can kick your butt with R-50 bought in Germany. Don't know if it is different from their export line but I know they wore me out with it when I was stationed in Germany.

The ammo chase has caused a lot of shooters to drop out. As unpleasant as it is you have to do it or those that do will win.

Please do mistake what I'm saying. I am not saying it is all in the ammo. There are a whole lot of moving parts to being a successful RFBR shooters. Any one of them can take you down. Ammo is just one.

TKH
From my limited time learning about 22 LRBR it seems that the game is all about finding ammo that will work in your rifle. Then when the shooter find it, and something goes wrong at the match the shooted starts second guessing his equipment? or himself. and possible even the ammo that he just spent days testing. I got into benchrest simply because i like the looks of the rifle. I have always been a position shooter high power, small bore, BP silhouette but always thought BR guns were cool looking. But thought shooting from the bench was cheating. Then a couple of months ago a rifle came up for sale on the classified section of this site and it was my vision of the ideal bench rest rifle for me, and got it, not knowing a thing. My education came from the former owner and this forum. I figured rimfire ammo was the ticket because i could drop one aspect of target shooting (the reloading of ammunition) Now add in the never ending search for suitable ammo to keep the beautiful rifle running has me wondering if i should have gone the center fire route.
But i got to thinking what if i said "screw it" I'll pick one type of ammo and stick with it. Cheap ammo expensive stuff it doesn't matter. Just something to shoot. You can still play with your tuners, triggers, scopes till your blue in the face. But shoot the best you can with what ya got. For matches, how about all competitors shoot the same ammo. The match director can quiz the shooters before hand on what type of ammo they want to use. Doesn't matter what, as long as it's all the same. Each shooter purchases what they think they need, and run the match as usual. Some rifles might like it, some not. Oh well.
Now i realize that we all strive for perfection in ourselves and our equipment but sometimes it's nice to sit back and enjoy shooting and leave the technical stuff on the reloading bench.
I know this wouldn't fly with all shooters but it might be nice to give it a try.
Personally, the amount of knowledge i have gleaned from this site is staggering. From obvious to rocket science. And the attention to detail is above my pay grade thats why i decide to follow what i have scribed above in my personal shooting. As time goes on i might see the light a fall down the rabbit hole. Who knows. At the moment i'm having a great time learning and shooting tiny groups.
Keep the comments coming..............Thanks
 
For matches, how about all competitors shoot the same ammo.
My club is planning a version of this next season, shooting a Mini Palma (100 yds) on a windy range with Eley Contact and a round limit of one box of club supplied ammo for 45 record shots. It is supposed to bring in more shooters by limiting the expense of the 'match ammo arms race.'

I just ordered a brick of Contact to experiment with, but I suspect from what I have found online, that group sizes are likely to confound meaningful analysis of wind, ammo, and shooter interaction. If that's the case match results seem more like a game of chance than marksmanship. It will be interesting to see how it works out, and how it is received/supported.
 
It's not the arrows it's the indian.
Good shooters are good shooters. Good equipment only improves there scores. Level the playing field by only allowing one type of ammo, in MY opinion reduces a lot of stress on match day. All i have to worry about is shooting. With the knowledge that no other shooter has an edge over me ammo wise.

Mini palma is one of my favorite competitions. We run two matches iron sights and optics and usually use CCI standard velocity ammo or Wolf if we can find it. Now that i have the Bench bug were thinking of doing mini palma F class, shooting the bench guns on the belly.
 
It's not the arrows it's the indian.
Good shooters are good shooters. Good equipment only improves there scores. Level the playing field by only allowing one type of ammo, in MY opinion reduces a lot of stress on match day. All i have to worry about is shooting. With the knowledge that no other shooter has an edge over me ammo wise.

Mini palma is one of my favorite competitions. We run two matches iron sights and optics and usually use CCI standard velocity ammo or Wolf if we can find it. Now that i have the Bench bug were thinking of doing mini palma F class, shooting the bench guns on the belly.
"It's not the arrows, it's the Indian" - I completely disagree. I don't care how good a shooter you are, if you don't have a "rifle system" (rifle, scope, rest & ammo) capapable of shooting inside at least the 10-ring, if not the X-ring, you are wasting your time and money. I have read many times people advocating the use of cheap ammo to practice with, saving their good ammo for matches. If you do that, how do you know if it the your wind reading ability or the ammo that caused you to shoot that 3 o'clock 8 - using "club ammo" in a match is exactly the same thing.

Just my opinion, but I think the idea of requiring "club ammo" is ultimately a recipe for significantly less participation, if not disaster, since it becomes a game of "chance" instead of precision. If you get lucky and your rifle shoots the "club ammo" well you will have a chance at winning. If your rifle doesn't shoot it well you are just a particpant. I have known shooters over the years who were there to just particpate. Some didn't have the money to truly compete and others didn't have the talent and that OK, that was their decision. But most of us don't fall into the "participant" catergory, we are "competitors", whether we win or not.

As I have said many times, "this sport in not for the financially timid". Maybe there is a place for a class for this type of shooting, but to required the use of $5 ammo in a $4K to $5K rifle is like putting Cooper tires on a Z06 Corvette, to make racing more affordable.
 
"It's not the arrows, it's the Indian" - I completely disagree. I don't care how good a shooter you are, if you don't have a "rifle system" (rifle, scope, rest & ammo) capapable of shooting inside at least the 10-ring, if not the X-ring, you are wasting your time and money. I have read many times people advocating the use of cheap ammo to practice with, saving their good ammo for matches. If you do that, how do you know if it the your wind reading ability or the ammo that caused you to shoot that 3 o'clock 8 - using "club ammo" in a match is exactly the same thing.

Just my opinion, but I think the idea of requiring "club ammo" is ultimately a recipe for significantly less participation, if not disaster, since it becomes a game of "chance" instead of precision. If you get lucky and your rifle shoots the "club ammo" well you will have a chance at winning. If your rifle doesn't shoot it well you are just a particpant. I have known shooters over the years who were there to just particpate. Some didn't have the money to truly compete and others didn't have the talent and that OK, that was their decision. But most of us don't fall into the "participant" catergory, we are "competitors", whether we win or not.

As I have said many times, "this sport in not for the financially timid". Maybe there is a place for a class for this type of shooting, but to required the use of $5 ammo in a $4K to $5K rifle is like putting Cooper tires on a Z06 Corvette, to make racing more affordable.
i can agree with some of what you said, but to take the "presumption" that the rifles are 4-5K might be a lil on the extreme side, i have a good feeling the Phil and his crowd will be using more like factory Anschutzs and rifles like that.
 
i can agree with some of what you said, but to take the "presumption" that the rifles are 4-5K might be a lil on the extreme side, i have a good feeling the Phil and his crowd will be using more like factory Anschutzs and rifles like that.
No doubt you don't have to spend that much for a rifle, but many serious competitors do. I just looked at the Champions Choice website and a new Anschutz 1913 Bench Rest model with Walnut stock is $3,200 (http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.aspx?p=ItemDetailOptions&item=011762). Add even a Sightron 45X45 SIII ED scope for another $1K and you are at $4,200. I just built a new rifle on a RimX action, Shilen barrel, Jewel trigger, used KRG chassis and the scope referenced above - did all the work myself and with 4 spare magzines I've got just about $4,000 in it. So the idea of feeding it or my 1413 Anschutz $5/box ammo isn't very appealing. But everyone has their own idea of what is fun.
 
Having kicked this hornets nest, let me clarify, the match I described is intended to get folks that are not currently shooting competition to try it out, and catch the bug. I anticipate participants will bring mostly commercial sporting rifles, not match rifles. For this match & objectives, I have no problem with the use of a common, lower cost ammo.

My reservation is based on second hand reports of the selected ammo (Eley Contact) grouping at ~2-3 moa at 100 yards (that's between the 8 & 9 rings on the 1000 yd Mini Palma bull), and the plan to limit sighters to 5 shots.

I think most of the casual shooters we are trying to attract to competition may not have much success adjusting the sights on rifles typically last shot/zeroed at 50 yds or less, with something other than a 42gr Contact round, to 100 yards in perennially windy conditions with only 5 sighters. And that seems to me to be a formula for a match that is as likely to build frustration with competition shooting, as to build enthusiasm for further participation.
 

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