Possible Change to Optics Sale AREA -- Members ONLY?

[Tommie]

These are "fighting words". This is the most offensive and insulting remark that has been directed to me in 15 YEARS of running this website. As another member just told me, that post by Milo was "despicable".

Milo is gone. He has been banned from the Forum forever.

I want to say something. At 11:45 pm last night, when I saw a member possibly be defrauded, I went to work tracing the transaction and creating two threads to warn members. I also got up at 5:30 AM to call the scope buyer and personally warn him.

I want guys like Milo to consider this. I will work 3300+ hours on the site this year. I have worked all but 3 days in 2019 -- that means I have worked 239 out of 242 days so far. I typically work 65-70 hours a week on the site.

I release nearly 1000 articles a year in the bulletin. That is more than the American Rifleman does with a team of editors and writers.

And I have 46,600+ Forum members to deal with....

Good riddance!!! Milo’s jackhole snotty attacks have been getting old for quite a while.

 

[Evan]

I wonder if Milo would say that to someone in person. Really quite inappropriate and I'm sure his mother would be ashamed of him, or maybe not and that's why he's the rude vulgar dip that he is today.

I really worry that paid member classifieds would make folks more complacent. A "We're all paying members here" attitude. Putting a fence around the sheep hardly keeps the wolves away.

Boss, I appreciate your hard work and you shouldn't take grief from members for anything you do or don't do for us. I will happily follow any rules you choose for your kingdom or I'll quietly and politely leave, like my parents taught me.

 

[garandman]

Again... 100 posts b4 members can sell.

That way ppl cant just show up and scam

 

[Raythemanroe]

Yep, I know of at least one "Silver" member who was a scammer. Very tiny investment for someone looking for a big score.

Other than maybe after the fact they may have more to track them down with (info) I don't see it as a deterrent. I truly want the classifieds to work because I find it to be very nice. I'm always checking to see what is up for sale whether I'm looking to buy or not. I just feel like people gotta be responsible for deals on the whim.


Ray

 

[swd]

These are "fighting words". This is the most offensive and insulting remark that has been directed to me in 15 YEARS of running this website. As another member just told me, that post by Milo was "despicable".

Milo is gone. He has been banned from the Forum forever.

I want to say something. At 11:45 pm last night, when I saw a member possibly be defrauded, I went to work tracing the transaction and creating two threads to warn members. I also got up at 5:30 AM to call the scope buyer and personally warn him.

I want guys like Milo to consider this. I will work 3300+ hours on the site this year. I have worked all but 3 days in 2019 -- that means I have worked 239 out of 242 days so far. I typically work 65-70 hours a week on the site.

I release nearly 1000 articles a year in the bulletin. That is more than the American Rifleman does with a team of editors and writers.

And I have 46,600+ Forum members to deal with....

Thank you for keeping the best site on the web STILL the best site on the web!!

 

[6MMsteve]

Thank you for keeping the best site on the web STILL the best site on the web!!

Agree yes I've learned so much and it has great peoples

 

[Nirbhao]

Another site which shall not be named requires a minimum of 100 posts before allowing members to sell anything.

There's alot to dislike about that site, but that a good policy, IMO....

And we miss you so ... NOT. Here's hoping that you've finally found your special Internet niche.

 

[Ccrider]

If requiring payment provides additional tracking information, I am all for it. I do not think that it will deter scammers. It may give some people a false sense of security-he is a gold member, I can trust him. Also, paying the fee may be a true hardship on some really good people on here.

You have ran the site for years and know the ins and outs better than most. Because of this, you are in a unique position to make the decision. We appreciate the opportunity to have some input, but ultimately, I hope you make the decision based on your insight and judgment about what is best for the site and not based on what a majority may say they want.

 

[Tim s]

It strikes me that trying to mandate “common sense” in the age of the internet where little exists is going to be challenging.
That said, not being an IT guy here’s a thought.
Would it be reasonable to mandate a vetting process for sellers offering up merch at some level, driven by your assessment as to where bad actors start to increase ? Make them register and possibly charge a nominal fee for individual sales.

 

[pirate ammo]

Right up front,I'm a pirate, I kid you not, and Miles is a friend of mine.

 

[Centuriator]

No sales unless a person has contributed 100 *meaningful* posts to the site. Watch out for people who join one day and then thirty days later have 100 posts. Works well on Snipers Hide. The 100 meaningful post rule keeps out the idiots and scammers.

When I sell things I offer to demonstrate my bona fides via my Gunbroker sales, etc. and give out my cell phone.

I've never had a problem as a buyer or seller, again, it's about common sense.

 

[garandman]

And we miss you so ... NOT. Here's hoping that you've finally found your special Internet niche.

I have. SH is waaayy in the rear view mirror.

 

[hogpatrol]

Has anyone asked for payment in Bitcoin or other cryptocurrency? This seems to be a new angle used by scammers.

Aside that Boss, been on this rock over seven decades. Learned one thing for certain. You can't fix stupid.

 

[338 dude]

I’m a poet and didn’t even know it

Ok

 

[6ShotsOr5?]

First - GREAT job Boss. Thanks especially for sending a message that scammers need to find another site, and helping us ensure there won’t be any easy money made off our members.

My first sale on this site — it was a medium-grade Leupold — the member called me and also asked for a custom photo. He was real nice about it, and it made sense to me that he would do that. If anybody with no seller history wants to sell something and they don’t want to take a call or take a picture, don’t buy, but tell the rest of us.

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

To blindly buy as on Craig's list is foolish. I'm sry ppl are thieves & prey on the ignorant.
BUT .....
I'm not a sponsor. Ppl that use this site as a sales counter should sponsor the site.
Shooter to shooter transactions are part of the sport and this site's draw.
If you Make it a pay site and only paying members can have transactions .....watch the sponsors dry up.

Run it the way you want, however
I see plenty of revenue with banners and rockers. I click them to help the site.
Get volunteer moderators to help monitor for rule violations. One for each department. work smart, not hard.

I'll not be bullied into paying to share my kknowledg, gain the knowledge of others or trade parts amongst fellow shooters.

Charge the guys using the site for their business. I see plenty abusing the sales threads.

Rant over ..........

J

I see folks here who like you are not paying members, selling items, sometimes for thousands of dollars. In my mind, they are cheep skates. One of the largest sites to buy and sell firearms and related items, charges a transaction fee based on the price. Most times it is in excess of a Silver Membership here.

No body is trying to bully you. You get to make a choice if you want to buy and sell by paying a membership fee. If, as I hope, the Boss makes it a rule to have a Silver Membership, you then have a choice.

Now myself, I won't buy from a non member. Anything they are selling can be bought from a paying member. I don't have any respect for freeloaders of any kind.

My rant is over

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Has anyone asked for payment in Bitcoin or other cryptocurrency? This seems to be a new angle used by scammers.

Aside that Boss, been on this rock over seven decades. Learned one thing for certain. You can't fix stupid.

I take bitcoin but have never asked for it. I think im the only gunsmith that does!

 

[ED3]

Pat -- We are thinking of doing just that -- having a pop-up screen appear when somebody replies to a For Sale thread. Unfortunately, at this time, there is no such functionality at all with our Xenforo forum software. However, I plan to see if we could get some custom code written.

This would be a short paragraph with --
A. What to Watch Out for
B. What questions to ask
C. How to protect yourself

Unfortunately, I don't see how to make it run other than to appear with each post, or each time a Classified thread was viewed. That would get old fast...

One concern I might have on your behalf:

If you create a warning telling potential buyers to do A, B, & C, and they still get scammed, is there any liability to you for NOT including the advisory to do D, E, & F?

My concern is along the lines of the big social media sites standing behind the defense that they are merely infrastructure, and do not control, and therefore are not responsible for content...and then, as it is widely seen, start to (over) control content, and thus become somewhat responsible for said content.

Just don't want to see you, dba the forum become the target of someone who will never be able to manage their affairs, and perpetually blame someone else.

As always, thanks for your work.

Regards

 

[ED3]

Again... 100 posts b4 members can sell.

That way ppl cant just show up and scam

That might slow some down a bit...until they they make there way to 100 posts with a lot of: 'I Agree'..."Nice Looking Gun', '+!' posts etc, etc.

 

[CT10ring]

Folks,
We have seen cases of bad sellers in the classifieds, particularly in the Optics area. A few actual scammers, but other sellers who are exploiting the system in various ways.

Unfortunately members crazed to score a bargain are not heeding what I have said over and over and over again.

NEVER buy an expensive scope without talking to the seller live, by voice, on the telephone. And INSIST on custom photos (that cannot be grabbed off another site). Ask seller to take a photo with a bow on the scope, or masking tape with specific words.

Apparently people are still not getting the message. So let me try this -- if you shell out hundreds or even thousands of dollars for an optic without talking to the seller live, by Voice (not TEXT or Private message), you're a g-damned FOOL!

In any case, I am thinking of restricting Optics selling rights to Silver and Gold members only. Non-members could still read and purchase, but not sell. This is not a guarantee of security, but it will help a lot.

I hate to go this route, but I can't seem to get members to follow my instructions and protect themselves. Maybe these graphics will help hammer this home:

View attachment 1123617


View attachment 1123618

View attachment 1123619

Hey, I've sold & bought plenty of scopes and other stuff here. 100% honest dealings, EQ & results.
Just use your common sense and go with your gut. Not the Forum Boss's job to police every sale, I'd think.

Folks,
We have seen cases of bad sellers in the classifieds, particularly in the Optics area. A few actual scammers, but other sellers who are exploiting the system in various ways.

Unfortunately members crazed to score a bargain are not heeding what I have said over and over and over again.

NEVER buy an expensive scope without talking to the seller live, by voice, on the telephone. And INSIST on custom photos (that cannot be grabbed off another site). Ask seller to take a photo with a bow on the scope, or masking tape with specific words.

Apparently people are still not getting the message. So let me try this -- if you shell out hundreds or even thousands of dollars for an optic without talking to the seller live, by Voice (not TEXT or Private message), you're a g-damned FOOL!

In any case, I am thinking of restricting Optics selling rights to Silver and Gold members only. Non-members could still read and purchase, but not sell. This is not a guarantee of security, but it will help a lot.

I hate to go this route, but I can't seem to get members to follow my instructions and protect themselves. Maybe these graphics will help hammer this home:

View attachment 1123617


View attachment 1123618

View attachment 1123619

This may be unexciting, but I think this site; Forum Boss' creation, threads, info available, selling/buying -- is pretty much perfection.

Use common sense when buying. So there may be conflicts, rough-ish language, or poor grammar. Don't change a thing. It's working dam well &
kinda reflects the freedom of the U.S. Sometimes messy but always free. Caveat emptor, we are all capable of managing our own affairs.