Paying money vs. doing work

[Adam in WI]

@Adam in WI ^^^^^ theres some "aliemating and condescending" fer ya.... lol

Fun times, baby...

I didn't say some of the responses weren't exactly on point, however you asked the question in the intro post. Even if you don't appreciate the delivery of some of them, brush it off and move on. When you turn combative, it turns off some old timer who's maybe got a world record or some championships from weighing in. Not to pile on because some of your threads are indeed interesting questions; but this one comes off as someone who's made up their mind and is looking for a couple yes men (the "am I missing something" from the op seems entirely rhetorical).

 

[garandman]

I didn't say some of the responses weren't exactly on point, however you asked the question in the intro post. Even if you don't appreciate the delivery of some of them, brush it off and move on. When you turn combative, it turns off some old timer

So when some old timer starts off being rude to me I'm supposed to just brush it off, but if I take exception with their rudeness that's still my fault....

How about get these old timers not to be rude to me at the 1st? Have you IMd them to correct their behavior ? How about get them to brush it off... ???

If you read carefully I've actually noted several places other people made good points I hadn't thought of and I asked several questions about learning curve and time required to aneel 200 cases and other pertinent information I did not know. I would say your assessment that my mind is made up and I can't be taught anything is incorrect.

But you're correct about one thing… I will push back when people start being rude to me when I was never rude to them. I don't care if they know more than God. There's no excuse for rudeness. I dont tolerate it.

 

[Baka]

I'm not made of money, but there is a point at which I'd rather spend the money for new brass, rather than anneal old brass. (Same rule applies to all the labor intensive tasks of life)

I know you can extend life of your brass by annealing. Still...by the time you buy the annealer, etc whatever all is needed, PLUS add in the time spent at a reasonable wage, plus add in the value of other work that couldn't be done while annealing, at some points its actually cheaper to just buy new brass.

I figger I can get at least 4 firings out of quality brass. An annealer is $250, plus propane cylinders. Not sure how much time would be spent, but as a CPA my time would get billed out at $250 / hr. So that's an opportunty cost lost. I could get $250 doing billable work. If annealing 200 cases takes 1 hour, plus all the learning curve, that's money lost. Set up would require another workbench, so that's at least another hundred bux. So some math:

200 Cases - $300 (200 cases with 12 firings each = 2400 rounds fired)
Annealer - 250
Propane - 25
1 hours labor - 250 (not including setup of annealer and learning curve and brass damaged learning)
Workbench - 100

TOTAL $925


You'd hav to anneal at least twice, I'm guessing....

I can get 600 brand new 6 Dasher cases for $775, shoot them 4x each, get 2400 rounds down the barrel at which point I'm starting to think about replacing a barrel anyway. I'm not a weekly competetive match shooter, so, I'm not chewing thru loaded rounds like they do. ... and I like shooting, not reloading, and especially not tasks like annealing. The cost savings *might* come in after 2400 rounds fired but chances are I'll re-barrel to something else at that point anyway. (Short attention span.) I may not even get to 2400 rounds fired in 5 years. So $925 vs. $775 and not having to do tasks I don't like. Yes I know some enjoy annealing. And also sorting steel pins out of tumbled brass with a tweezer. ) Plus all my brass would be from the same lot #, so no worries there.

Where am I wrong? Its just a preference thing, right...??

Do you get much work at that price? If you do give up shooting and get workiing!

 

[INTJ]

If anybody has any serious commentary, I'll post back but I'm not gonna answer these argumentative, clutter type posts.

I think my comments got missed in the babble. Here is why I anneal. Basically, it saves time.....

I spend a lot of time prepping my long range BR brass. Sorting, neck turning, fireforming. This brass will outlast several barrels. It takes 15 minutes to wipe with steel wool and anneal 70 cases with my AMP after each firing. I don't want to take all the time to start all over with new cases when my current ones will last for a very long time.

 

[garandman]

I think my comments got missed in the babble. Here is why I anneal. Basically, it saves time.....

I spend a lot of time prepping my long range BR brass. Sorting, neck turning, fireforming. This brass will outlast several barrels. It takes 15 minutes to wipe with steel wool and anneal 70 cases with my AMP after each firing. I don't want to take all the time to start all over with new cases when my current ones will last for a very long time.

Curious... how many firings per case you get? And how many rds per bbl ? One really knowledgable guy said he gets 14 or more firings


Explained above, I dont do alot of brass prep, basically size, tumble, trim and then prime. That gets me .2 to .4 moa.

 

[garandman]

Do you get much work at that price? If you do give up shooting and get workiing!

I work so I can shoot. and just buy new brass so I can shoot rather than anneal.

 

[dnellans]

Back to some basic economics…. If you pay $1.00 a case. 1 firing, $1.00 a shot. if it lasts 4 firings, it’s .25 a firing. If it lasts 8 firings it’s .125. 16x .0625…. you get the picture. clearly diminishing returns in absolute dollars.

however - by annealing each time (annealeez chosen specifically for ease of use while i do 500-1000 at a time), i don’t even track firings. the time spent overlapping annealing with sizing or some other operation makes it “free” from a time perspective.

optimize the pipeline, don’t drop a step that has been known to work in improving consistency.

 

[Chiquita]

The OP is merely making a post that to "him" it is not worth annealing. He would rather buy new brass every six firings.

I don't see why the discussion got off topic and now it is about beating the man down about his desire not to anneal.

As it is the case with some of you, I also got into reloading because I enjoy it and it is relaxing to me. But I am not arguing with the OP why he is making $250 per hour and why he needs give up reloading and go work instead or other unwarranted comments.

I like to anneal and reloads so be it, You don't so be it. Now we are acting like little middle aged woman that are about to get into menopause and in my opinion we are acting silly. ( I know nobody asked for my opinion)

I will finish by saying that I just purchased an AMP unit and damn FEDEX has delayed the delivery. Now FEDEX is who I will be mad about.

Peace out.

 

[garandman]

Back to some basic economics…. If you pay $1.00 a case. 1 firing, $1.00 a shot. if it lasts 4 firings, it’s .25 a firing. If it lasts 8 firings it’s .125. 16x .0625…. you get the picture. clearly diminishing returns in absolute dollars.

Actually, the more firings per case, your maximizing returns by reducing cost per firing. That is the whole point of annealing.

Re: tracking firings... are you saying yoy mix 1x fired with 5x, 7x and 10x fired? Do you anneal after every firing?? Im not following....

 

[Forum Boss]

Garandman says his time is worth $250/hr so it makes no sense to anneal.

Some thoughts.

1. The OP could easily have annealed 200 pieces of brass in the time he has probably spent posting in this thread alone. 27 posts by him in this one thread by my quick count. (Not to mention other chatty threads he has started).

2. If anybody is spending more than 6 hours per week watching TV then you certainly have time to anneal — the point here is that pretty much everyone has wasted free time that would NEVER ever be paid at employment hourly rates. So if you can watch one less hour of NFL or FoxNews in a week, you can anneal.

3. I know a major national champion who replaces his brass after three firings (for major matches) and does not anneal. I also know top 30BR shooters who have gotten over 10 firings on their brass by annealing every time. Clearly the situation depends on your budget, your discipline, and your available free time.

 

[garandman]

@MrBarrel ... its either menopause, or testisterone... lol.

Thanx for "getting it"

 

[garandman]

@Forum Boss .... I am very bad at multi - tasking... I might burn the house down if I posted and annealed at the same time.

 

[Big_Daddy]

Did the guy who locks these threads fall asleep, maybe nite shooting? Now we’re wasting bits or bites, whatever into the metaverse

He is probably busy annealing.......LOL

 

[Forum Boss]

I tried to point out the obvious in my post.

And yes this thread is now locked.

The main point is than any person can realistically find an hour or two a month to anneal.