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Paying money vs. doing work
- Thread starter garandman
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My annealer takes me about 4 seconds per case, so I can do 200 in ~13 minutes. It takes me about 2-3 more minutes to get started and then put a couple of things away when I’m done.Even at minimum wage, you'll about break even.
Serious ?.... how long does it take to anneal 200 cases?
This could not have been stated better. Do you not do other things because it doesn't put 250 an hour in your pocket? I shoot a lot of shot shells shooting registered trap. I don't reload for it any longer because shooting 20 to 30 thousand rounds a year and reloading for that ISN'T FUN!!! I don't mind doing what is needed for center fire cartridges because I'm trying to attain the best accuracy. Shotgun shells not so much, just using what gives you your best pattern in your gun.
Sell your television, get an annealer.My time is. Given we are all gonna die, time is the most valauble commodity we have. Time used one way can never be regained. And I'd rather spend time shooting, vs. annealing. Right?Maybe its just me....
BTW...even at minimum wage, you'll barely break even annealing.
You could also box it your brass and pay someone to properly prep it.
djsbrass.com
You'd save even more time, since new brass does require some prep.
Cartridge Brass Service
Annealing, Hydro-Forming, Neck Turning, Ultrasonic Cleaning, Case Resizing or False Shoulders for wildcats!
djsbrass.com
You'd save even more time, since new brass does require some prep.
garandman
Bolt Gun Bodacious
Guilty.
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
Something like a Bench source that advertises 5-600 rounds per hour is $500.
At $250 per hour, after annealing your first 600 cases, you have netted $25, less two bottles of propane.
On your second time annealing the same batch, on the same machine, you have netted $775 less two bottles of propane.
Sounds like you will make more money annealing your own brass than working as a CPA.
At $250 per hour, after annealing your first 600 cases, you have netted $25, less two bottles of propane.
On your second time annealing the same batch, on the same machine, you have netted $775 less two bottles of propane.
Sounds like you will make more money annealing your own brass than working as a CPA.
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
Unfortunately he is going to be losing a bunch of that when the tax bill goes through. Joe promised only 400k+ will pay their fair share.
I spend a lot of time prepping my LRBR brass. Sorting, neck turning, fireforming. This brass will outlast several barrels. It takes 15 minutes to wipe with steel wool and anneal 70 cases with my AMP after each firing. Why would I want to take all the time to start all over with new cases when my current ones will last for a very long time?
I'm not made of money, but there is a point at which I'd rather spend the money for new brass, rather than anneal old brass. (Same rule applies to all the labor intensive tasks of life)
I know you can extend life of your brass by annealing. Still...by the time you buy the annealer, etc whatever all is needed, PLUS add in the time spent at a reasonable wage, plus add in the value of other work that couldn't be done while annealing, at some points its actually cheaper to just buy new brass.
I figger I can get at least 4 firings out of quality brass. An annealer is $250, plus propane cylinders. Not sure how much time would be spent, but as a CPA my time would get billed out at $250 / hr. So that's an opportunty cost lost. I could get $250 doing billable work. If annealing 200 cases takes 1 hour, plus all the learning curve, that's money lost. Set up would require another workbench, so that's at least another hundred bux. So some math:
200 Cases - $300 (200 cases with 12 firings each = 2400 rounds fired)
Annealer - 250
Propane - 25
1 hours labor - 250 (not including setup of annealer and learning curve and brass damaged learning)
Workbench - 100
TOTAL $925
You'd hav to anneal at least twice, I'm guessing....
I can get 600 brand new 6 Dasher cases for $775, shoot them 4x each, get 2400 rounds down the barrel at which point I'm starting to think about replacing a barrel anyway. I'm not a weekly competetive match shooter, so, I'm not chewing thru loaded rounds like they do. ... and I like shooting, not reloading, and especially not tasks like annealing. The cost savings *might* come in after 2400 rounds fired but chances are I'll re-barrel to something else at that point anyway. (Short attention span.) I may not even get to 2400 rounds fired in 5 years. So $925 vs. $775 and not having to do tasks I don't like. Yes I know some enjoy annealing. And also sorting steel pins out of tumbled brass with a tweezer.
Where am I wrong? Its just a preference thing, right...??
Hmmmm??? If the annealer costs $250, at the end of 2400 rounds that annealer still going have some market value, so lets say you might net $75 upon selling it making your actual cost $175 (being generous on the depreciation). The cost of propane seems pretty high since 2 16 oz Coleman 2-pack can be had for less than$10 and can, which would certainly do all the annealing you want to do for 2400 rounds. No need for an another workbench if it's well organized, you can use the one you have if you do as I do with my very small workbench where I simply take out my annealer from a cabinet shelf and set it up on my bench; takes all of 5 minutes in total for setup and breakdown to put it way afterwards (maybe 6 minutes if I'm loafing along).
200 case : $300
Annealer Net Cost: $175
Propane: $ 9
1 hr labor: $250 (lost opportunity cost)
No new workbench: -0-
Total: $734
So the way I see it, it's almost a break even thing.
Except, when buying 600 new Dashers they're not likely to perform to their potential until after they're fire formed, where going with the annealing route you only have to fire form 200 once.CPA's aren't the only one's that look at things from this perspective (e.g. CFP's. CRM's, CLU's)
Tucker65
Gold $$ Contributor
My time is. Given we are all gonna die, time is the most valauble commodity we have. Time used one way can never be regained. And I'd rather spend time shooting, vs. annealing. Right?
BTW...even at minimum wage, you'll barely break even annealing.
My time is. Given we are all gonna die, time is the most valauble commodity we have. Time used one way can never be regained. And I'd rather spend time shooting, vs. annealing. Right?
BTW...even at minimum wage, you'll barely break even annealing.
I often make things in the shop that I'm sure I have way more time in than the thing actually would cost. Sometimes it's just enjoyable to do things yourself instead of pulling out the checkbook.
If you want to send all that brass you're going to toss out my way I'm sure I can find to anneal it and put it to good use.
garandman
Bolt Gun Bodacious
I'll sell it to ya. But not for cheap.
If you find annealing fun, have at it. I find shooting fun.
CJ6
Silver $$ Contributor
If you look at it as annealing for just 1 cartridge, no it doesn't really make scence money wise. But when you have a lot of different cartridges that savings adds up quick.I'm not made of money, but there is a point at which I'd rather spend the money for new brass, rather than anneal old brass. (Same rule applies to all the labor intensive tasks of life)
I know you can extend life of your brass by annealing. Still...by the time you buy the annealer, etc whatever all is needed, PLUS add in the time spent at a reasonable wage, plus add in the value of other work that couldn't be done while annealing, at some points its actually cheaper to just buy new brass.
I figger I can get at least 4 firings out of quality brass. An annealer is $250, plus propane cylinders. Not sure how much time would be spent, but as a CPA my time would get billed out at $250 / hr. So that's an opportunty cost lost. I could get $250 doing billable work. If annealing 200 cases takes 1 hour, plus all the learning curve, that's money lost. Set up would require another workbench, so that's at least another hundred bux. So some math:
200 Cases - $300 (200 cases with 12 firings each = 2400 rounds fired)
Annealer - 250
Propane - 25
1 hours labor - 250 (not including setup of annealer and learning curve and brass damaged learning)
Workbench - 100
TOTAL $925
You'd hav to anneal at least twice, I'm guessing....
I can get 600 brand new 6 Dasher cases for $775, shoot them 4x each, get 2400 rounds down the barrel at which point I'm starting to think about replacing a barrel anyway. I'm not a weekly competetive match shooter, so, I'm not chewing thru loaded rounds like they do. ... and I like shooting, not reloading, and especially not tasks like annealing. The cost savings *might* come in after 2400 rounds fired but chances are I'll re-barrel to something else at that point anyway. (Short attention span.) I may not even get to 2400 rounds fired in 5 years. So $925 vs. $775 and not having to do tasks I don't like. Yes I know some enjoy annealing. And also sorting steel pins out of tumbled brass with a tweezer.
Where am I wrong? Its just a preference thing, right...??
About half an hour with my amp,But we all know what those cost. I do not worry about charging myself labor for my hobby I do it because I want to in my SPARE time Not time I could be making some money elsewhereEven at minimum wage, you'll about break even.
Serious ?.... how long does it take to anneal 200 cases?
garandman
Bolt Gun Bodacious
Not to repeat myself, but... time is the most valuable commodity in the universe. I always factor it in..
garandman
Bolt Gun Bodacious
Shooting... yes.
Reloading... somewhat.
Annealing.... no.
Thanx... I'll choose my own hobbies. And decide what my time is worth to me.
I guess it all depends how much value you put on doing things you enjoy, you get paid for work that is usually not nearly as much fun .when you’re doing things you enjoy it usually doesn’t pay nearly as much because you enjoy it!
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