PAC NOR featherweight model 70 fliers

[INTJ]

You have a lot of cards stacked against you and a 1 piece base aint the answer. A model 70, featherweight, shooting groups with a 308, that stock setup shooting from a bench, and all that time between shots, youre doing surprisingly well for what you have. You can take any load on that page, even mixing them up, and accomplish the mission that gun was designed to do. Sometimes you gotta back up and look at the whole forest.

It's not the M-70 action that is the limitation. It's the barrel.

I have had some M-70 FWTs and lightweight M-70s that would shoot 1/2" groups on occasion. My current one in 300 WSM will do 1/4" on occasion. Day in and day out they were/are .6 to .8 MOA rifles, and I was/am very happy with that level of accuracy. Especially considering I had/have an extremely durable and reliable action.

I made a 435 yd shot on a small Blacktail buck with my 300 WSM, a clean one shot kill. This rifle has a Benchmark M-70 WSM contour, which is about a #2. It's in a McMillan Hunters Edge stock. While it is a joy to carry, It was REALLY hard to get stable with that rifle for the 435 yd shot.

I did have a CRF M-70 that was a legitimate 1/4 MOA 3-shot rifle, at least at 100 yds. It was about a 1/2 MOA rifle at 550. It weighed 12 lbs and was in 338 Edge.

I currently have a 33-28 Nosler on a CRF M-70. It has a #4 contour Benchmark barrel and weighs 8.75 lbs with the scope. It will shoot .5 to .7 with controlled expansion bullets, depending on the load. Not bad for almost 50 ft lbs of recoil.

For me, a reliable action and a reliable bullet are my top criteria in a light to standard weight hunting rifle. So a CRF M-70 shooting well-sorted Accubonds or TTSXs are the magic for me.

For a long range hunting rifle I want at least a #5 contour barrel, and I do expect consistent 1/2 MOA 3-shot groups. However, this is at least a 9.5 lb rifle/scope combination.

 

[370bc]

Do you remember the worst groups it shot compared to the best?

In general, from the bench, not letting the barrel get even warm, it was under MOA. But the groups would not repeat as often asi would of liked. Always seemed to have one flier out of the group. I had unexplained misses in the field. I fought it and fought it some more. I wanted a 400 yard coyote blaster, when I could only get reliably a 200 yard blaster.
Try watching some PRS videos & what they use. It’s made my shooting/hunting life so much easier.

 

[AlNyhus]

You are shooting over wind flags, right????? -Al

 

[Markg308]

You are shooting over wind flags, right????? -Al

No I’m not. I know it’s not the same but the range I shoot at has thick pines down the side of it that block a good bit of wind.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

No I’m not. I know it’s not the same but the range I shoot at has thick pines down the side of it that block a good bit of wind.

If you was to put up some flags youd probably see some crazy updrafts. After using flags id rather shoot in an open field than have weird blockers around

 

[AlNyhus]

Quite a few of your groups show lots of horizontal...weather reports.

Lacking flags, you can't make any progress...you're literally shooting blind. -Al

 

[drover]

If you was to put up some flags youd probably see some crazy updrafts. After using flags id rather shoot in an open field than have weird blockers around

Agreed - any wind blockers can cause lots of unseen effects, unless you have flags out you are spitting into the wind - good pun Huh?.

Purchase 2 or 3 of these and a roll of surveyors tape, I put the posts out at 25, 50 and 75 yards and tie a piece of surveors tape so that it has a 12 inch or so tail
.https://www.amazon.com/Zareba-PTP39-Tail-Step-39-Inch/dp/B002FYXUVA/ref=sr_1_12?crid=1XEL7M6QLLU66&keywords=electric+fence+step+in+posts&qid=1640044652&sprefix=electric+fence+step+in+posts%2Caps%2C273&sr=8-12

Then pay attention to what "you can't" see down range.
Inexpensive, easy to set up and will give you a world full of information (and likely drive you nuts for a while until you figure out what you are seeing).

drover

 

[AlNyhus]

Starting out with flags, they will at least tell you if there's a big reverse out there.....that's the big yield. The other stuff comes as you get used to them.

By looking at some of your groups, they're likely better than the measurements show as there is a lot of straight line stuff.... missed pickups and letoffs.

Even very light barrels don't vibrate straight horizontally.... -Al

 

[INTJ]

Wind flags at a great tool and definitely help. I use them all the time. However, they won't make a 1.2 MOA barrel shoot .5 MOA at 100 yds

A 10 MPH direct crosswind will move a 308 Win bullet .5 to .6 inches at 100. So if the wind was 5 MPH gusting to 15 MPH at exactly 90 degrees to the line of fire, and you shot one shot at 5 MPH and one at 15 MPH; then you would see full value horizontal deflection.

A 10 MPH gust is very noticeable whether on the ground or in the air. It's not likely anyone is going to shoot with such wind. More likely the wind variation is 1/4 to 1/2 that, and while that can make a .4 MOA group a .6 MOA group--or the opposite; it's not going to make a .4 MOA group into a 1 MOA group.

I periodically have to shoot with more wind than I like when developing loads. When that happens I shoot between the gusts. It works quite well......

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Wind flags at a great tool and definitely help. I use them all the time. However, they won't make a 1.2 MOA barrel shoot .5 MOA at 100 yds

A 10 MPH direct crosswind will move a 308 Win bullet .5 to .6 inches at 100. So if the wind was 5 MPH gusting to 15 MPH at exactly 90 degrees to the line of fire, and you shot one shot at 5 MPH and one at 15 MPH; then you would see full value horizontal deflection.

A 10 MPH gust is very noticeable whether on the ground or in the air. It's not likely anyone is going to shoot with such wind. More likely the wind variation is 1/4 to 1/2 that, and while that can make a .4 MOA group a .6 MOA group--or the opposite; it's not going to make a .4 MOA group into a 1 MOA group.

I periodically have to shoot with more wind than I like when developing loads. When that happens I shoot between the gusts. It works quite well......

I can assure you the wind will make a .5moa barrel shoot 1.2moa at 100.

 

[INTJ]

I can assure you the wind will make a .5moa barrel shoot 1.2moa at 100.

Only by exceeding a 90 degree 10 MPH gust, and what idiot works up loads in those conditions and ignores the gusts?

Wind flags won't fix the OPs issue......

 

[Markg308]

Thanks guys the only wind experience I have is shooting at longer ranges on steel. I haven’t payed much attention to it at 100 yards except for trying to shoot in between gusts

 

[whatsupdoc]

Thanks guys the only wind experience I have is shooting at longer ranges on steel. I haven’t payed much attention to it at 100 yards except for trying to shoot in between gusts

Wind flags for your rifle is a little much putting it mildly, I have had a couple and still have a 70 featherweight in 06. The thin tapered foreend makes them tough to shoot good groups as they tend to roll and move around on the bags.

Personally I think the problem is the barrel. For a paper thin barrel I would have installed a cut rifled
barrel instead of a button rifled barrel, but that is just me.

Another thing is maybe you are expecting too much with your rifle, it is a lightweight hunting rifle
made to be carried all day without weighing you down not a .25 MOA rifle. I was happy with
my featherweights 1 MOA three shot groups. With a fixed 4x scope it was a pleasure to carry around looking for deer.

Dont go crazy get a load that works and use the rifle for what it is.

 

[Markg308]

Wind flags for your rifle is a little much putting it mildly, I have had a couple and still have a 70 featherweight in 06. The thin tapered foreend makes them tough to shoot good groups as they tend to roll and move around on the bags.

Personally I think the problem is the barrel. For a paper thin barrel I would have installed a cut rifled
barrel instead of a button rifled barrel, but that is just me.

Another thing is maybe you are expecting too much with your rifle, it is a lightweight hunting rifle
made to be carried all day without weighing you down not a .25 MOA rifle. I was happy with
my featherweights 1 MOA three shot groups. With a fixed 4x scope it was a pleasure to carry around looking for deer.

Dont go crazy get a load that works and use the rifle for what it is

I’m was never expecting 1/4 moa but I was hoping for around 1/2 or atleast 3/4 or I would have just left the 1moa factory barrel on it. Is you’res a factory barrel?

 

[AlNyhus]

Wind flags for your rifle is a little much putting it mildly......

Barrel profile can't change the physics of wind acting on a bullet.
Good shootin' -Al

 

[whatsupdoc]

I’m was never expecting 1/4 moa but I was hoping for around 1/2 or atleast 3/4 or I would have just left the 1moa factory barrel on it. Is you’res a factory barrel?

I have had 3, all factory barrels all shot around 1to 1.2 MOA.
I was exaggerating a bit about .25 MOA but even .5 is tough on that kind of setup.

 

[INTJ]

Barrel profile can't change the physics of wind acting on a bullet.
Good shootin' -Al

You are correct, and that is why it's important to know just how much the wind effects the bullet at various speeds and directions.

A typical light breeze that we commonly see won't make a huge difference for a hunting rifle at 100 yds. Now it does for a BR rifle.......

 

[whatsupdoc]

Barrel profile can't change the physics of wind acting on a bullet.
Good shootin' -Al

Wind (lite breeze) will will be a minor factor on a hunting rifle that is not steady on the bag.

 

[AlNyhus]

You are correct, and that is why it's important to know just how much the wind effects the bullet at various speeds and directions.

A typical light breeze that we commonly see won't make a huge difference for a hunting rifle at 100 yds. Now it does for a BR rifle.......

These figures are for wind deflection in a 10 mph cross wind at 100 yds.:

- 6mm 68 gr. F.B. BR bullet .280 B.C. @ 3,200 fps (avg. 6PPC load) : .73 inches
-.308 118 gr. FB BR bullet .320 B.C. @ 2,950 fps (avg. 30BR load) : .84 inches
-.308 168 gr. Berger Classic Hunter .489 B.C. @ 2,600 fps (Markg308's load) : .74 inches

Some ballistic truths to ponder, for those so inclined.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[jelenko]

Right. But a 'light breeze', to me, would be ~ 3mph.
At 3mph, the .308 Berger Classic Hunter drifts .2 inches at 100 yards.