OK If sorting doesn’t

[greisdor]

For me a flyer has to be not touching the other holes. and I don't think you can compare what a 223 does to a 22. This is my target at 100 (0.755 bulls eye) with the one flyer, every one was complaining that the could not get a handle on the wind. By the way I took first place in this compotition

may I ask what your rifle is and your ammo ? How you found the ammo ?

 

[doclu60]

For me a flyer has to be not touching the other holes. and I don't think you can compare what a 223 does to a 22. This is my target at 100 (0.755 bulls eye) with the one flyer, every one was complaining that the could not get a handle on the wind. By the way I took first place in this compotition

David, I posted the pic as an illustration of what Jamie posted in relation to what defines a flyer for different shooters, NOT to compare .223 to .22lr.

John (VLNBYR) has offered his opinion, and now you have offered yours. Quite frankly, it doesn't matter what the gun is chambered for that shot the errant shot. I am happy you posted the target you shoot, gives a reference as to what you are shooting.

If you hold true to your definition of what a flier is, then I am fairly certain if you test enough lots at the test center, you are going to see some! Never been a time I haven't. Never been a time after getting the printouts from Eley that I haven't either.

Again, hope you have a good test.
Scott

 

[doclu60]

For me a flier has to be a malfunction of the system, rifle, bench, ammo, rest, etc. Wind, mirage, and shooter error don't qualify

So John, in your definition, how exactly do know what caused what you call a flier? Now as I said, I clearly pulled the last shot in the pic I posted, I felt it. But, the shooter doesn't always 'feel' or 'know' why the shot didn't go where it should have. Is it too far of a stretch to still call it a flier.....IYO?

Scott

 

[VLNBYR]

Scott...What makes this game difficult, lots of times you don't know what is causing your trouble, could even be multiple things. Ammo, for me, is the easiest, 5 or 10 lots of Lapua Midas and you don't improve you don't have an ammo problem. Bedding is a bigger factor than most realize.

 

[grauhanen]

For what it's worth, test tunnel results can and do show errant shots -- fliers, if you will.

Below are four random lots of Eley Tenex recorded through the Eley Lot Analyser. It's no longer available (as of about a year ago?) and it was probably more trouble to Eley than it was worth.

Each column has five ten-shot groups produced by the same barrel. Each barrel shot at least some of the lots very differently than the others; each barrel produced "fliers"; each barrel could shoot some very consistent and inconsistent groups with the same ammo.

It's little wonder that the Lot Analyser may have confused shooters.

 

[VLNBYR]

For what it's worth, test tunnel results can and do show errant shots -- fliers, if you will.

Below are four random lots of Eley Tenex recorded through the Eley Lot Analyser. It's no longer available (as of about a year ago?) and it was probably more trouble to Eley than it was worth.

Each column has five ten-shot groups produced by the same barrel. Each barrel shot at least some of the lots very differently than the others; each barrel produced "fliers"; each barrel could shoot some very consistent and inconsistent groups with the same ammo.

It's little wonder that the Lot Analyser may have confused shooters.

What generally happens is that when you combine each barrels groups into one large group those "fliers" are inside the larger group and no longer fliers.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

Here are some test center fliers , so what happen here?

Lee

 

[Twicepop]

Take a Hornady bullet comparator with a 6MM insert installed. Drop loaded .22 rounds in and measure the length of the bullets in the comparator and segregate by measurements.

 

[grauhanen]

What generally happens is that when you combine each barrels groups into one large group those "fliers" are inside the larger group and no longer fliers.

When the group gets large enough, "fliers" invariably vanish.

Checking my records, I could find two of the Eley Lot Anazlyser 50-shot overlay results for the lots shown above.

Below is the top left target shown above and the 50-shot overlay that combines the five groups for each of the barrels. Only one apparent "flier".

Note that none show the actual center of the target. As a result it's not possible to know whether or by how much any of the ten-shot groups were off center.




Below is the bottom right target and the 50-shot overlay. No apparent "fliers".

 

[cdiver]

may I ask what your rifle is and your ammo ? How you found the ammo ?

Rifle is a Diorio V2 and ammo is Lapua midas.
I still have ammo from my stash but I have cut back on my shooting to make it last. However the target I posted was shot with a BSA Martini MK lll and Eley match.

 

[Pawnee Bill]

love the TAC patch!!! Been there, got the T-SHIRT

SAC, TAC and MAC, the good old days!!!

 

[garandman]

I think getting rid of flyers begins with admitting that it was NOT a flyer, it was shooter error or wind read error.

2nd step is getting a Vudoo.

 

[greisdor]

So far you guys get rid of fliers by paying Lapua or Eley to find a good lot of ammo for your rifle. But I will try a different barrel first.

 

[VLNBYR]

So far you guys get rid of fliers by paying Lapua or Eley to find a good lot of ammo for your rifle. But I will try a different barrel first.

When you get a different barrel the ammo testing starts over. There are no shortcuts.

 

[PatMiles]

What VLNBYR said, there are no shortcuts.

 

[greisdor]

Learning is not a short cut and I like barrel butchery so - I world rather spend the money on sluging a reaming a new barrel.

Thanks for all the info !

JR

 

[linebaugh]

So far you guys get rid of fliers by paying Lapua or Eley to find a good lot of ammo for your rifle. But I will try a different barrel first.

My thoughts as well. Spend money and time testing ammo lots or just put a different bbl on and see if it works. Not saying its right or wrong but I agree with your thinking out of the box because i have considered this.

I also do not believe the above "no fliers due to ammo" theories. Not saying much of this is not shooter, weather or equipment related error but to claim no fliers due to ammo is kind of absurd IMO. I cant load 50-100 rounds of CF cosistent enough to make myself that confident so I tend to question what high volume machine beats my loading practices.

I sure think we would see much smaller groups considering the amount of people trying to break the riddle if the ammo could be excluded as the problem.

 

[VLNBYR]

All ammo varies. Good ammo varies less, poor ammo varies more. Fliers are shots that vary wildly from whatever your normal variation happens to be. Match ammo a flier will generally be supersonic or a low dropping dud. My take on ammo related fliers.

 

[The stowaway]

Why should that cause barrel flyers?
The barrel always stays the same when shooting.
The ammunition changes from shot to shot!

If sorting by Rimthicknes doesn't work, then I have another suggestion.

Sort by crimp eccentricity ! (Maybe this helps)

After the shot, inside:




Attention, insider know !
Or better before the shot, outside:




Why should differences between the Rimthicknes Flyers cause?
Start thinking, or explain to me.

The Stowaway

 

[The stowaway]

With the right or more sorting methods you can also avoid flyers.
As an example, 30 shots with an excellent lot SK standard. Without a fleyer.