Ok i dont understand this.. Help for .38spl load....

[Rsadams]

Please confirm actual diameter of your lot of bullets. While not Berry's, I have purchased plated bullets that measured .356 dia., and on-target results were abysmal in my revolvers.
Switched to Xtreme plated bullets (and Berry's) measuring an honest .357/.358 with great success.
GotRDid.

3 random out of the box were .358...

 

[Steve Ladino]

I would say bad primers or contaminated powder ( lousy flash holes ?) after all the things you have verified. Many many folks shoot the 148 grain hbfp with 2.7 grains of Bullseye ( at least in the early 80's we did, maybe slightly more now )

 

[Rsadams]

I would say bad primers or contaminated powder ( lousy flash holes ?) after all the things you have verified. Many many folks shoot the 148 grain hbfp with 2.7 grains of Bullseye ( at least in the early 80's we did, maybe slightly more now )

It a new pound of win. 231 iam gona load some exact clones in 9mm and see what they do.. I've shot 2or300 9mm out a this pound with good results and iam pretty sure I had this problem with the .38 out of the last pound and I shot over a thousand 9mm with it with no problems... Also I shot 5 9mm over the crono with only 23 fps deviation and they were loaded using the powder dropper not even measured exactly like the .38 rounds...

I know this is crazy,theres tons of people using win.231 for .38 over the years. Iam just trying to make practice rounds around 650fps for my wife..I have never had a problem with anything else 9mm,.45 etc like this. Of course they are short cases and this is my first time loading long cases. Seems nuts to me. I was using the s/b primers for my 9mm because I can get them $19 a thousand but I even went back to the CCI for better ignition and it worked,it stopped leaving unburnt powder this last time and the crono even picked it up. But with the ruger lcr at 13oz with the 4.6gr loads have a lot more recoil than I was looking for. Darn near factory recoil. I am gone take a .38 case and see how much crimp I can get on the berry bullet before doing damage...if I have to waste a few so be it..

 

[GotRDid]

Roger That on proper diameter. Keep us posted on your progress.
GotRDid.

 

[IrishJim]

Your problem comes from the choice of bullet for the revolver, and the lack of crimp. Berry’s Premium plated .38 bullets do not have a cannelure (crimp groove) for you to apply a proper roll-crimp. Additionally, your Lee FCD requires at least ¾ of a turn to begin to get a decent roll-crimp, but without a groove for the lip of the case to roll into there is insufficient crimp for the cartridge to develop consistent pressure. Your choices of powder, brass, and primer selection are all perfectly fine for use in the Ruger LCR .38. Try a bullet with a crimp-groove, apply a roll-crimp so it will develop correct pressure, cut back on the powder, and I know you will have a consistent and enjoyable gun to practice with. Enjoy!

 

[Rsadams]

Your problem comes from the choice of bullet for the revolver, and the lack of crimp. Berry’s Premium plated .38 bullets do not have a cannelure (crimp groove) for you to apply a proper roll-crimp. Additionally, your Lee FCD requires at least ¾ of a turn to begin to get a decent roll-crimp, but without a groove for the lip of the case to roll into there is insufficient crimp for the cartridge to develop consistent pressure. Your choices of powder, brass, and primer selection are all perfectly fine for use in the Ruger LCR .38. Try a bullet with a crimp-groove, apply a roll-crimp so it will develop correct pressure, cut back on the powder, and I know you will have a consistent and enjoyable gun to practice with. Enjoy!

Thank you for your reply.. The crimp keeps coming up I didn't think crimp mattered that much , that neck tension was key. But iam gone try to see how muck crimp I can put, a lot more and see what happens for sure. I have 250 more berys after their gone iam just gone spend the extra 10 bucks for hornady bullets for anything with a roll crimp.. I got used to applying only the amount of crimp to remove the belling in auto loaders and iam just gone have to be more aggressive with the roll crimp.. Once again thanks for your time and advice..

 

[Steve Ladino]

Thank you for your reply.. The crimp keeps coming up I didn't think crimp mattered that much , that neck tension was key. But iam gone try to see how muck crimp I can put, a lot more and see what happens for sure. I have 250 more berys after their gone iam just gone spend the extra 10 bucks for hornady bullets for anything with a roll crimp.. I got used to applying only the amount of crimp to remove the belling in auto loaders and iam just gone have to be more aggressive with the roll crimp.. Once again thanks for your time and advice..

No crimp on rifle loads except for heavy recoiling rounds in a magazine , in fact for BR ammo the NK tension is nill to almost none. Agree the bell needs to be made parallel to the case wall and that's it, ie. the 45 acp loads. As I remember we used Federal primers shooting PPC as the CCI were too hard to pop with our light S&W hammer falls. Primer pockets dirty ?

 

[ppaul]

Just a thought could you seat with your .38/.357 die and then back out the seater stem on your 9mm and use the taper crimp in that die. You should be able to get alot firmer crimp w/ that. In my opinion a cannelure is minimum for a roll crimp, and they really work well with a crimp groove in cast boolits.

 

[243winxb]

position sensitive

 

[IrishJim]

Thank you for your reply.. The crimp keeps coming up I didn't think crimp mattered that much , that neck tension was key. But iam gone try to see how muck crimp I can put, a lot more and see what happens for sure. I have 250 more berys after their gone iam just gone spend the extra 10 bucks for hornady bullets for anything with a roll crimp.. I got used to applying only the amount of crimp to remove the belling in auto loaders and iam just gone have to be more aggressive with the roll crimp.. Once again thanks for your time and advice..

In revolvers – the crimp actually matters a lot. It does more than just prevent the projectile from backing-out during recoil. A roll-crimp can easily add 100 pounds of additional resistance that must be overcome before the bullet is released by combustion. In essence, it slows release which gives the powder that extra fraction of time to more completely combust and deliver a more complete and consistent pressure. The bullet does not travel far before it crosses the cylinder gap, losing some gas pressure, and enters the forcing-cone and into the barrel. Obtaining the maximum burn/compression before the bullet begins moving forward, ensures a more efficient and consistent performance shot after shot. In your case you want accuracy, but you want to minimize recoil and try not to have sooty cases and heavy fouling. Bullets with a crimp-groove will enable you to get a tight roll-crimp, which will provide better combustion with smaller amounts of powder, providing consistent shot after shot performance, while reducing fouling and soot. I can understand needing to use up what you have before trying something different – I hope you at least have fun using them up!

 

[Rsadams]

In revolvers – the crimp actually matters a lot. It does more than just prevent the projectile from backing-out during recoil. A roll-crimp can easily add 100 pounds of additional resistance that must be overcome before the bullet is released by combustion. In essence, it slows release which gives the powder that extra fraction of time to more completely combust and deliver a more complete and consistent pressure. The bullet does not travel far before it crosses the cylinder gap, losing some gas pressure, and enters the forcing-cone and into the barrel. Obtaining the maximum burn/compression before the bullet begins moving forward, ensures a more efficient and consistent performance shot after shot. In your case you want accuracy, but you want to minimize recoil and try not to have sooty cases and heavy fouling. Bullets with a crimp-groove will enable you to get a tight roll-crimp, which will provide better combustion with smaller amounts of powder, providing consistent shot after shot performance, while reducing fouling and soot. I can understand needing to use up what you have before trying something different – I hope you at least have fun using them up!

Thank you... The light crimp keeps coming up.. I think I will back the charge down to 4.4 and really crimp the berry bullets as hard as I can without breaking the coatings. I am just going to resize a case without primer or powder insert a berrys, crimp tighter pull the bullet , check for coating damage then repeat till I find what the limit is and go from there.. Whats bad is they shoot good just getting some weird fps readings .....there plenty of people using less charge than me with win231 and having great results but I don't think they are using berry bullets... I guess iam trying to load them like auto loader rounds and that just not how you do it with a revolver..

 

[Rsadams]

Just a thought could you seat with your .38/.357 die and then back out the seater stem on your 9mm and use the taper crimp in that die. You should be able to get alot firmer crimp w/ that. In my opinion a cannelure is minimum for a roll crimp, and they really work well with a crimp groove in cast boolits.

I have Lee fcd for everything so I could maybe just use my 9mm Lee fcd..
Thanks for your idea..

 

[Rsadams]

Thank you...

No crimp on rifle loads except for heavy recoiling rounds in a magazine , in fact for BR ammo the NK tension is nill to almost none. Agree the bell needs to be made parallel to the case wall and that's it, ie. the 45 acp loads. As I remember we used Federal primers shooting PPC as the CCI were too hard to pop with our light S&W hammer falls. Primer pockets dirty ?

I spend way to much time on brass prep everything is nice and tidy..I just need to stop loading them like auto loader bullets. I think simply removing the bell and not crimping is not gonna work with the revolver rounds. At last thats what it looks like. Thank you for your reply..

 

[Auto-X Fil]

I spend way to much time on brass prep everything is nice and tidy..I just need to stop loading them like auto loader bullets. I think simply removing the bell and not crimping is not gonna work with the revolver rounds. At last thats what it looks like. Thank you for your reply..

I use W231 for 38 SPL. I had all kinds of problems using a Lee Crimp die until I started using bullets with a crimp groove, and cranked the Lee die down to really seat the case mouth into the groove. They now shoot aces in both revolvers and lever guns.

My bullet of choice is a 158gr Missouri coated.

 

[Shaggy357]

I think simply removing the bell and not crimping is not gonna work with the revolver rounds. At last thats what it looks like. Thank you for your reply..

Correct statement. My FA 41 mag was shooting ok with a load I got from a buddy that was using H4227. When I ran out of H4227 I went to the IMR-4227. It wasn't until I made this switch that I really concentrated on how well my load was shooting. I had a nice roll crimp in my Starline brass into the LBT bullet, but nice didn't cut it. I trimmed all my cases and ROLLED that case mouth into the groove. My groups cut by more than half, and my sight settings became considerably more precise, just by improving the crimp.

Good luck. Hope you work it out.

Steve

 

[dskogman]

I spend way to much time on brass prep everything is nice and tidy..

I did as well but it really doesn't make much difference at pistol distances. Maybe 50 yd bullseye or benchrest. Now I just run them thru the LLM and shoot'em again. Coated lead works as well as expensive copper jacket except full power 357 mag.

 

[joshb]

Thank you... The light crimp keeps coming up.. I think I will back the charge down to 4.4 and really crimp the berry bullets as hard as I can without breaking the coatings. I am just going to resize a case without primer or powder insert a berrys, crimp tighter pull the bullet , check for coating damage then repeat till I find what the limit is and go from there.. Whats bad is they shoot good just getting some weird fps readings .....there plenty of people using less charge than me with win231 and having great results but I don't think they are using berry bullets... I guess iam trying to load them like auto loader rounds and that just not how you do it with a revolver..

Yup. The cylinder gap is why crimp becomes more important for getting a good pressure curve. Autos don't have the gap. Also why ya have to watch your case lengths. Differing lengths give ya differing crimps. Take a look at wad cutters. I can't tell ya how many thousands of those and semi wad cutters I've loaded and shot. Easy to crimp.

 

[joshb]

In revolvers – the crimp actually matters a lot. It does more than just prevent the projectile from backing-out during recoil. A roll-crimp can easily add 100 pounds of additional resistance that must be overcome before the bullet is released by combustion. In essence, it slows release which gives the powder that extra fraction of time to more completely combust and deliver a more complete and consistent pressure. The bullet does not travel far before it crosses the cylinder gap, losing some gas pressure, and enters the forcing-cone and into the barrel. Obtaining the maximum burn/compression before the bullet begins moving forward, ensures a more efficient and consistent performance shot after shot. In your case you want accuracy, but you want to minimize recoil and try not to have sooty cases and heavy fouling. Bullets with a crimp-groove will enable you to get a tight roll-crimp, which will provide better combustion with smaller amounts of powder, providing consistent shot after shot performance, while reducing fouling and soot. I can understand needing to use up what you have before trying something different – I hope you at least have fun using them up!

Spot on!! Thanks for saving me all that typing.

 

[joshb]

Just a story to help ya feel better. Before I got into rifles, I shot pistol. LOTS of pistol for 15 years. Mostly 38, 357 , 44 special and 44 mag. Last winter, I filled all my 40 and 45 ACP empties.Prolly 4 thousand rounds. I didn't have my 45 seater die down far enough to straighten out the bell. I found out fast on my first time to the range. They wouldn't chamber. I had to run them all thru the press again to fix them. You would think I'd know better.

 

[bheadboy]

Ok you guys, from a long term pistolero -- the speed of sound is greater than the speed of these bullets, the result is the sound wave is kicking off the crono, either speed them up or mover much further back from the screens.

lots of experience in this and the stuff bout bullets/powder/crimp etc is a waste of time.

Bob