Not much case stretch on Belted Mag brass?

[markm87]

I've been loading .223 and .308 for years. But I'm puzzled at the belted mag loads.

Specifically... I'm seeing very little need for trimming 300 Win Mag brass. I'm running a Redding Type S full length sizing die, and the larrywillis collet as needed.

But this brass needs almost no trimming compared to .308 bolt gun loads. I'm trimming on an LE WILSON. Over half won't need trim at all after sizing.

Is this normal for Belted mags?

 

[4xforfun]

I have an embarissing secret....sometimes I NEVER trim my cases....EVER. I will measure them after a few firings to see how close they are to each other. I shoot mostly belted cases in 1000 yard comp. If they aren't wildly apart on case lengh, I don't bother. Now, I do have a few of those Sinclair chamber length gauges...you know, those little plugs you soft seat in your shortend brass and chamber up, just to make sure I wasn't going into the "danger zone".

I actually did trim one set of brass last year....6mm dasher. BUT, after I finished, I discovered that I trimmed them WAY SHORT. I know, measure twice and cut once. Anyway...I needed to shoot them since it was just before the IBS 1K nationals.

The result....!!! ;D ;D ;D.

To me, if you say that your cases aren't growing, that tells me that you have your FL sizing die spot on, and that you are (minimly) headspacing off of the sholder and not the belt.

Good luck,
Tod

 

[markm87]

I hope I have the die just right. That would be ideal.

 

[4xforfun]

I just re-read your post. Am I to believe that you trim after EVERY FIRING?

 

[moosetracker]

I hope I have the die just right. That would be ideal.

Get Larry Willis' Digital Headspace Gauge and measure your fired cases at the shoulder. This way you can set up your resizing die to give a .002" bump. Better still, purchase a set of Sinclair shims to fit between your die and the press. Once your die is set up you can modify the bump by .001" increments as your brass ages and/or you wish to resize brass for another gun in the same caliber.

 

[MrMajestic]

But I'm puzzled at the belted mag loads.

Specifically... I'm seeing very little need for trimming 300 Win Mag brass.

I hate Braggers! ;D

 

[markm87]

I just re-read your post. Am I to believe that you trim after EVERY FIRING?

I check it every firing. My .308 gets trimmed every firing.

I hate Braggers! ;D

I was worried I was doing something wrong....

And yes, moosetracker.. I need to get the right tools for the bump measurement. But I was trying to get a feel for my findings so far.

 

[4xforfun]

If you are trimming your 308 after every firing, and you are actually trimming some brass off of the cases each time, then I think that your 308 die is NOT set up right. How did you come up with the setting on your FL die?

 

[markm87]

If you are trimming your 308 after every firing, and you are actually trimming some brass off of the cases each time, then I think that your 308 die is NOT set up right. How did you come up with the setting on your FL die?

I think you're right.... the problem is I'm loading for 3 different rifles. One of which is a gas gun. So my die is set up to squeeze the brass back to SAAMI.

 

[4xforfun]

If you are trimming your 308 after every firing, and you are actually trimming some brass off of the cases each time, then I think that your 308 die is NOT set up right. How did you come up with the setting on your FL die?

I think you're right.... the problem is I'm loading for 3 different rifles. One of which is a gas gun. So my die is set up to squeeze the brass back to SAAMI.

The quickest and simpelest way to fix that is to have a die set up for each tube. What are they...25 bucks a piece for a 308. Save you time and money in the long run.

 

[markm87]

The quickest and simpelest way to fix that is to have a die set up for each tube. What are they...25 bucks a piece for a 308. Save you time and money in the long run.

I knew you were going to say that. I'm going to need to build an addition to my home to store all the dies.

Our .308 brass is starting to drop like flies.... (separating) The Bushing dies we like are more than 25 bucks... but I see there's not going to be an option.

 

[bozo699]

The quickest and simpelest way to fix that is to have a die set up for each tube. What are they...25 bucks a piece for a 308. Save you time and money in the long run.

I knew you were going to say that. I'm going to need to build an addition to my home to store all the dies.

Our .308 brass is starting to drop like flies.... (separating) The Bushing dies we like are more than 25 bucks... but I see there's not going to be an option.
Of course there is a option, I buy separate dies for each rifle but if I couldn't afford it I would simply set the die up for whatever rifle I was sizing for, it takes just a few seconds to set a die for the proper shoulder bump, use a couple of your not so good cases that came from that rifle and get the die set up on them in case you go to far, once set it is good forever or until you decide to change rifles, remember shell holders are cheap so keep the shell holder with the dies if you plan on leaving the die locked down and using it in the same press, also unless you anneal each time you may need to reset the die as brass work hardens, best of luck.
Wayne.

 

[markm87]

Thanks...

I do anneal every time... At a minimum, I'll get a separate die for the Gas gun.

 

[moosetracker]

The quickest and simpelest way to fix that is to have a die set up for each tube. What are they...25 bucks a piece for a 308. Save you time and money in the long run.

I knew you were going to say that. I'm going to need to build an addition to my home to store all the dies.

Our .308 brass is starting to drop like flies.... (separating) The Bushing dies we like are more than 25 bucks... but I see there's not going to be an option.

Why a resizing die for each firearm or even reset the die for each chamber? One option is very costly and the other is a PITA. A third option is to use calibrated shims under the die to bump your fired cases in accordance with the dimensions of each chamber.

I have 2 x 260 AI, 2 x 308 Win, 2 x 300 WM, 2 x 338 WM and 3 x 338 Edge (different barrels on a Savage action) and I only use 1 resizing die per caliber. Here's the method I use:

1. I take a fire formed case that is a tight fit, so that it's as close as possible to chamber dimensions.
2. Set the case in the Digital Headspace Gauge and zero the gauge (other methods or tools can be used). Here's the link:
http://www.larrywillis.com/
3. Insert a .003" shim on the FL, Redding body die, Forster Neck Bump die or other die and screw the die in the press till it's snug on the shellholder. Here's the link for the set of shims:
http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=33197/Product/Skip-s-die-shim-kit-7-8-14-
4. Resize the case with that set up.
5. Place the case in the Digital Headspace Gauge and get a measurement of the amount of shoulder bump.
6. If, for example, the bump measures .005" all you need to do is replace the .003" shim with a .006" shim (or add another .003" shim) and you get a .002" bump.

The beauty of this set up is that you don't need to touch the die even if you have multiple guns of the same caliber - you just change the shim in accordance with the bump you need. Also you can use another shim if you want more or less bump. All you need to do is keep a good record of the size shim you use for each firearm.

Occasionally, you get a minimal dimension chamber where you can only get less than .001" with the die. When this occurs, I use a dedicated shell holder which I sand on a flat surface to take off .001" or so.

 

[bozo699]

The quickest and simpelest way to fix that is to have a die set up for each tube. What are they...25 bucks a piece for a 308. Save you time and money in the long run.

I knew you were going to say that. I'm going to need to build an addition to my home to store all the dies.

Our .308 brass is starting to drop like flies.... (separating) The Bushing dies we like are more than 25 bucks... but I see there's not going to be an option.

Why a resizing die for each firearm or even reset the die for each chamber? One option is very costly and the other is a PITA. A third option is to use calibrated shims under the die to bump your fired cases in accordance with the dimensions of each chamber.

I have 2 x 260 AI, 2 x 308 Win, 2 x 300 WM, 2 x 338 WM and 3 x 338 Edge (different barrels on a Savage action) and I only use 1 resizing die per caliber. Here's the method I use:

1. I take a fire formed case that is a tight fit, so that it's as close as possible to chamber dimensions.
2. Set the case in the Digital Headspace Gauge and zero the gauge (other methods or tools can be used). Here's the link:
http://www.larrywillis.com/
3. Insert a .003" shim on the FL, Redding body die, Forster Neck Bump die or other die and screw the die in the press till it's snug on the shellholder. Here's the link for the set of shims:
http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=33197/Product/Skip-s-die-shim-kit-7-8-14-
4. Resize the case with that set up.
5. Place the case in the Digital Headspace Gauge and get a measurement of the amount of shoulder bump.
6. If, for example, the bump measures .005" all you need to do is replace the .003" shim with a .006" shim (or add another .003" shim) and you get a .002" bump.

The beauty of this set up is that you don't need to touch the die even if you have multiple guns of the same caliber - you just change the shim in accordance with the bump you need. Also you can use another shim if you want more or less bump. All you need to do is keep a good record of the size shim you use for each firearm.

Occasionally, you get a minimal dimension chamber where you can only get less than .001" with the die. When this occurs, I use a dedicated shell holder which I sand on a flat surface to take off .001" or so.
[/quote
I agree with Moosetracker other then I don't use the shims, not that there not good I just don't use them, with the digital headspace gauge it takes just seconds , less then two minutes for sure to set your die for the proper shoulder bump, I do have dies for each rifle for several reasons but I do have the knowledge to set one in no time at all, if by chance that is my only die for that particular cartridge.
Wayne.