No Modern 6.5x55 Love?

[DRNewcomb]

One other question is what is the SAAMI pressure limit for 6.5X55 factory ammo? If it's around 45K PSI, that could limit the performance for folks who don't reload. Sort of like having a modern rifle chambered for .30-40 Krag. Nothing wrong with the cartridge, per se, but the pressure limitations of the old Krag action cap the performance of factory ammo. This might be an answer to why the caliber is not more popular.

 

[CobraRed]

One other question is what is the SAAMI pressure limit for 6.5X55 factory ammo? If it's around 45K PSI, that could limit the performance for folks who don't reload. Sort of like having a modern rifle chambered for .30-40 Krag. Nothing wrong with the cartridge, per se, but the pressure limitations of the old Krag action cap the performance of factory ammo. This might be an answer to why the caliber is not more popular.

This is very true, factory ammo is loaded very slow/light and doesn't shoot as flat or buck the wind like our handloads.
I think book max on rl22 is around 46gr behind a 140, my pet is load in my r700 is 49.5 - that's a huge difference.

 

[Willoughby]

I've always wanted to build one, but after looking at Hogdens reloading data
I don't see #'s any better than a plain vanilla 270 win
are these #'s on the safe -low side
just for the older guns ?
I know published #'s often are very conservative on most calibers
what velocity are you guys seeing with 140-142 gr bullets ?
I see one posted 2850
which is 150-or so higher than hogdens highest #'s

 

[DRNewcomb]

I've always wanted to build one, but after looking at Hogdens reloading data
I don't see #'s any better than a plain vanilla 270 win
are these #'s on the safe -low side
just for the older guns ?

Normally good reloading manuals will specify the limitations of their data. For instance, my old Speer manual says, "However, the Swedish M94 Mauser actions and the Norwegian Krag actions are designed for pressures of about 45000 psi so the handloader should not exceed the loading data for the older rifles." My old Sierra manual says the loads were tested in a "Swedish Military Carbine" and mentions "pressures not to exceed 45,000 pounds per square inch." I see no reason why, given a modern action, you could not load to get the same pressures and velocities as any other 6.5 of similar case volume.

 

[KAIFS]

Mauser brothers pushed a prototype ( on a m95 oberndorf action) to 77,000psi, I believe- Crown Jewels has translations of actual letters where it describes pressure tests in ATM (atmospheres). Swedes, from what I read, tried proof loads developed between 4000 and 4500 ATM which converted (x14.69) give pressures of between 58,760psi and 66,000psi. However, with a m/41 round settled on PSIs in the mid 40k range - my suspicion is due to fact that semi and automatic weapons also used 6.5x55 round. With absolute certainty I can say that Ljungman rifle (aka ag42) was already 'pushing it' with m/41 ammo as far as pressures/burn rate/cycling timing...
So, I am not convinced that a 48k psi is the max for a military bolt action swedish mauser chambered in 6.5x55.

 

[TonyR]

I have heard great things about the 6.5X55 and would like to know more about the upside limits are for the brass being made today by the best manufacturers. What sorts of pressures will the cases made today by Lapua and Norma withstand in a modern single shot bolt gun like a BAT, Panda, etc? If the manufacturers are loading the commercial ammo to pressures in the high 40000s, what are the proof pressures for those cases compared to something like a 260 Rem where they are rated to pressures in the high 50s to low 60s?

 

[DRNewcomb]

So, I am not convinced that a 48k psi is the max for a military bolt action swedish mauser chambered in 6.5x55.

Only two concerns regarding the Swedish military bolt actions and they both relate to what happens when something goes wrong:
1. The gas bypass hole in the bolt is fairly small &
2. There is no secondary locking in the (highly unlikely) event of a bolt head failure.

 

[KAIFS]

There are two relieve holes in the bolt body and a some bolts have 3 (which is 2x the diameter of the regular hole. In my opinion and as someone whom fitted close to 60 military m94/m96/m38 bolts - catastrophic pressures will lead to a receiver failure and a blown out ejector before a rupture in a bolt body and/or stripped blown shroud... Again, my opinion.
Additionally, we cant ignore cg63/cg80 as well as FMxx and m/6 & m/7 target rifles competing in 1000m matches with heavier barrels. Note, that receivers on these were UNmodified m95/m94/m96 receivers with a similar bolt construction (minus filed off safety and shortened firing pin)... I cant imagine that a regular m/41 ammo was used with a 142.5gr (contrary to a popular believe of 139gr bullet) bullet. Also, military berdan primed brass (same one for sale on the FS forum I have) is 3gr less volume capacity compared to a current production Norma brass, thus thicker case... Had a dude to try this and he had my daughter prepping 3000 of these primed cases for him which I just shipped out last week. Good stuff.

 

[CobraRed]

I've always wanted to build one, but after looking at Hogdens reloading data
I don't see #'s any better than a plain vanilla 270 win
are these #'s on the safe -low side
just for the older guns ?
I know published #'s often are very conservative on most calibers
what velocity are you guys seeing with 140-142 gr bullets ?
I see one posted 2850
which is 150-or so higher than hogdens highest #'s

What #'s are you talking about? Just fps? Cuz I don't see a lot of fantastic .270 bullets out there.

2770 on a 140 .612 G1 .313 G7 bullet in the Berger VLD out of a stock R700
add 6-8 inches of barrel like the one I have on order and you're looking at 2920+

So, 1400-1500 yards of supersonic flight? How do those numbers look?

 

[koger]

My go to caliber for over 25+years. Have taken hundreds of chucks, yotes, crows and a sled load of deer from 50-500yds with this caliber. I built my original one in 1985, from surplus, unissued pristine ones coming in, 96 rifles, tapered the barrel ,bent the bolt, drilled and tapped, parkerized it, timney trigger and bedded in a syn stock. Thousands of rounds later, still shoots way under 1/2 MOA with half dozen different bullets. I ran a gun/gunsmithing shop for several years, built over 100 rifles in this caliber, and did extensive load development over 2 years. My last one, on a Savage long action with a Douglass XXX stainless full bull, 1/4 inch surface ground lug, action trued by me and Rifle Basix trigger in a Bell and Carlson Duramaxx shoots in the high .2's with my deer hunting load for KY here, a Sierra 120sp and IMR 3031 for 3000fps.No other powder gave me the accuracy of 3031 in my load development and when we ran this on Quick load recently, came up super effiecient and low pressure. In my opinon, the most versatile caliber out there.

 

[stik]

I love mine! It's a Remington 700 with a Shilen 3 groove barrel 23" long. I'm still working on finding the right load for it, I'm shooting 142gr SMK out of it right now. I need to order some AMAX bullets pretty soon too.


Here is a picture with better lighting.

 

[letronshootit]

Great cartridge, I have 5 in military configurations. 1 M94, 3 M96's, and a M96 with Soderin peep and hooded front sight. All excellent condition and a pleasure to shoot. Like the Swiss Rifle's beautiful workmanship. Most enjoyment is from offhand position because of the balance, making the competitive in all such completion. RL 17 works well with 140's.

 

[DRNewcomb]

Like the Swiss Rifle's beautiful workmanship.

Swedish? I have a couple of Swiss rifles and they are also beautiful, tho not quite so elegant as the Swedish Mausers.

 

[letronshootit]

Mr. Newcomb I would not say the Swiss Rifles are a bit less the workmanship of the Swede. When the action is out of the stock you can see that there is great care in the fit and craftsmanship. They went a bit farther in the adapting a rifle to snow covered environments to fit heavy gloved hands which makes them unique, large safety ring easy or see, large trigger guard, sweet 3 lb. trigger pull that is way better than any of my beloved Swedes, and there is that rotating bolt with the straight pull that we see on all AR and AK semi autos that they engineered in 1896. All packaged shooting a 7.5 x 55 cartridge which is so close to a .308. I enjoy these as well as my Swedes as you can tell sir.

 

[DRNewcomb]

Mr. Newcomb I would not say the Swiss Rifles are a bit less the workmanship of the Swede.

The word I used was "elegant", not "workmanship" or "quality", both of which are unsurpassed in Swiss military rifles. "Elegant" speaks to style and aesthetics. Before the K31, the best I would say of the Swiss rifles is that they were well made and accurate. IMHO.

 

[KAIFS]

Great cartridge, I have 5 in military configurations. 1 M94, 3 M96's, and a M96 with Soderin peep and hooded front sight. All excellent condition and a pleasure to shoot. Like the Swiss Rifle's beautiful workmanship. Most enjoyment is from offhand position because of the balance, making the competitive in all such completion. RL 17 works well with 140's.

if you ever decide to part with your M94 (provided it does not have a muzzle extension), please get a hold of me - I am pretty much all about swedes....

 

[DRNewcomb]

I am pretty much all about swedes....

Me too.

 

[letronshootit]

Poster of Swede girls awesome, Swede rifle elegant whatever. The Swiss 96/11 and 1911 got them too, are on the odd side but again they are balanced and super accurate shooters. I had one fellow at a shoot once ask me what kind of fishing rig that was. As to the M94 being for sale, its a cool gun, but everything is for sale eventually.

 

[letronshootit]

M94 is now listed on Gunbroker, I don't find any available on the web....

 

[wyoming .260]

This is an interesting thread, the things I know about the swede are this. Lapua brass for a swede is WAY cheaper then 6.5-284 or .260 brass. You can get cheap brass for it. prvi,rem. win. In the one modern gun I have seen in use it is only a minor half step behind a 6.5-284 in speed with similar barrel lengths. and the brass seems to last longer in comparable pressure loads. Oh and the one gun I know about there was one shot and the end result was a winter supply of elk meat.
Besides being completely efficient and usable,I guess its like another fav of mine the 7x57. Its so old and so reliable. Its blaise! But with that said boringly predictable is a good thing.