"new" ripoff trimmer from Hornady

[marchx]

The "supporting the sport argument' is a plain misunderstanding. Shooting industry is a high margin business. Hornady makes plenty of money out of it. They provide from time to time a free pack of ammo or their scale as prize to one or another match director and people perceive them as supporter of shooting sports. Yes, they support the sport but not out of Christian, ethical reasons. They just take 0.001% of their margin and give it back to you so you think of them nicely and buy those eneven bullets in red boxes.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Does anyone have the patent for the Henderson Trimmer, or the Hornady?
Is it a single patent or a conglomeration of detail patents?
10 or so "Claims" and rough sketches.

What are the stated "Claims" of either.
Patent suits can be won or lost when "claims" are modified so the products are legally different; or when overly broad and already in the "public domain".
Guide rods would probably be in the "public domain" for machine tools.
Adjustment methods like a Locking nut vs a micrometer also.

I would, just for the fun of it like to read the patents as approved.

I argued with a patent attorney and the patent office over two patents.
The officials countered with ridiculous existing patent art and claims (some not possible without space aliens ). "My" attorney wanted loose, broad "claims" sort of daring others to challenge it.
Product went nowhere.

For years I used the Hornady hand crank OAL trimmer. Even with a new cutter it left O.D. burrs.
A little extra time deburring the O.D. and of course the I.D.
I recently moved to the Lyman Case Trim Express Neck Trimmer (Made in China ), about 150 bucks.
For some reason it does not leave burrs on the O.D.
I use a hand held I.D. tool that adds a couple seconds to each case.
Would take me a lifetime of seconds to make up the price.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Does anyone have the patent for the Henderson Trimmer, or the Hornady?
Is it a single patent or a conglomeration of detail patents?
10 or so "Claims" and rough sketches.

What are the stated "Claims" of either.
Patent suits can be won or lost when "claims" are modified so the products are legally different; or when overly broad and already in the "public domain".
Guide rods would probably be in the "public domain" for machine tools.
Adjustment methods like a Locking nut vs a micrometer also.

I would, just for the fun of it like to read the patents as approved.

I argued with a patent attorney and the patent office over two patents.
The officials countered with ridiculous existing patent art and claims (some not possible without space aliens ). "My" attorney wanted loose, broad "claims" sort of daring others to challenge it.
Product went nowhere.

For years I used the Hornady hand crank OAL trimmer. Even with a new cutter it left O.D. burrs.
A little extra time deburring the O.D. and of course the I.D.
I recently moved to the Lyman Case Trim Express Neck Trimmer (Made in China ), about 150 bucks.
For some reason it does not leave burrs on the O.D.
I use a hand held I.D. tool that adds a couple seconds to each case.
Would take me a lifetime of seconds to make up the price.

this isn't in direct response to you, but nowhere in my OP did I mention anything in regards to the legality of what they did.

It was more along the lines of Hornady being a slimy company that apparently now tries to undercut small businesses to make profit by any means necessary.

For a company that claims to be a leader in innovation...what a joke. Hornady is dead to me.

 

[Dgd6mm]

How much for those 53vmax's?
10 cents each shipped?

 

[itchyTF]

How much for those 53vmax's?
10 cents each shipped?

Gone.

SOLD - hornady bullet lot for sale (22, 30, 338 cal) atips/eldms/vmax

$sold - shipped for whole lot. No longer supporting Hornady. There are a few atips and 225 eldms missing. 1 almost full box of 300 a tips 2 sealed boxes of 285 eldm 3 sealed boxes of 225 eldm 1 almost full box of 225 eldm 3 sealed boxes of 53vmax retail for this is $450+tax/ship

forum.accurateshooter.com

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

How much for those 53vmax's?
10 cents each shipped?

i already sold all my atipd, eldms, and vmax's in one large lot. switching to berger

 

[wboggs]

Here's the thing...We are a pretty small market in the big scheme and innovators often lack the marketing capacity to justify patent costs and defense if violated, especially by a Chinese company.

China's mentality and education system is great for laborers but poor for thinkers and innovators. But America actually excelled in the area of innovation for many years, though not as much as previously. Mostly because our education system and workforce has grown to be more and more like the Chinese model, but without the manufacturing base here, anymore.

Bottom line, China is not geared toward innovation due to communism but is geared toward cheap mfg.

I do NOT excuse them for stealing our intellectual design work, simply because they can make it cheaply...patent or not. Ever try to defend a patent against a China owned company? Good luck!

Right is right and wrong is wrong. Doesn't matter who it is.

It makes me sick to my stomach to see people blaming the designer when it really comes down to who has the most money.

You have it 100% right

 

[Knotwild]

I never heard of a Henderson trimmer before this thread. I can't afford it or a Hornaday anyway.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I remember the weekend that Sam's club closed and reopened on Monday with all new inventory. It was in 2001 or there about. On Friday, nearly every item in Sams club was MADE IN USA (per the Sam Walton philosophy). On Monday nearly every item was replaced with a cheap Chinese copy for the same price.

No one said a word. It's that way today and far worse.

It's the quiet acceptance of Chinese junk that gets me. The double standard. I'm not saying it's right. The double standard is what gets me. The Chinese products are just accepted with a shrug, Amazon seems to be doing fine. Lowe's and Home Depot basically sell mostly Chinese products. They are doing fine. Nobody protesting.

The average American home is filled with Chinese junk with American names on the boxes. It's all hypocracy to me.

Shoot man, I would love to buy American. It is either not an option or way above my pay grade. Something is seriously messed up.

 

[Larryh128]

This is the stuff that happens when the companies hire people that only are concerned about the bottom line. They have absolutely no moral compass. Cabelas is now a good example, 30 years ago they were a great company to deal with in terms of selling them goods. Today they ask if you to private label your goods so it appears that Cabelas made it. When you say no, they take it to China and have a junk version made. Having your name on a good product obviously increases the awareness of your product. There is a really good reason that I no longer sell to Cabelas and got rid of my Cabelas card as well. I couldn't agree more with Benchrest Braxton.

 

[nakneker]

Today’s corporate mentality, it’s been going on for decades. One by one the brick and mortar shops get taken out and the big corps continue to expand. I miss the days all the mom and pop shops.

One can hope that if that’s the trimmer design you want you consider Henderson. I’m sure Hornady priced it cheaper but one can hope. I had a Henderson trimmer and the quality was top shelf, really really good machine. Not sure big red can match the quality.

I think Hornady is an asset to the shooting community but this certainly is a bad look for them imo.

 

[Rob01]

Unless china bought Nebraska I am not sure why it keeps getting brought up in this post. Lol

 

[Bill K]

i already sold all my atipd, eldms, and vmax's in one large lot. switching to berger

Your choice, as all of us have in products to buy, which is well and good. But I wonder who Berger looked closely at, in the bullet lines and then proceeded to use as a guide to improve on and come up with his style and type of bullet design ?
It all boils down to taking any product, using it as a guide and changing it into your product, does it not ?

 

[Janeau]

It’s not new that companies put their name on products that they do not make. Actually it’s the norm. You can name almost every big store that offered products - guns at the turn of the century did it. Sears Roebuck ( Marlin) - CIL ( anschutz) as an example, and almost on anything they sold.

Many Western countries - not just USA - went China - Taiwan - Philipines and many more -for their manufacturing their products. Now we are complaining that those products are copied. Harley Davidson- an American icon got their casting from south Korea..most if not all their add on accessories are made in the Philippines are stamped as such.

When I worked overseas - Mercedez Benz had a factory in Turkey that they ended up closing. Guess what - Turkey continued to make parts and sell them as genuine at 25% of the parts sold by Mercedez.

The western countries did it to themselves - for gread- cheaper production cost.

Hornady is an American company manufacturing in the USA..you should be proud of it instead of bashing it.

The Hornady trimmer is different than the Hendersen.
Hendersen copied and use the Forster shell holder ( they even interchange) and their cutting head is a copy of the RCBS trimmer head. They do not make the electric motor and belt they are using…that maybe..be Chinese after all.

I am still awaiting for a Hendersen trimmer owner to post picture of the ‘Patent pending’ or a ‘patent number ‘ on the trimmer…because nowhere ..on their website - instructions - video’s there is a word about a patent…

My guess is there is no patent on the Hendersen..they use case holder -cutter -twin rod running the tool head - belt & motor that are all someone else ideas at some point.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Unless china bought Nebraska I am not sure why it keeps getting brought up in this post. Lol

I brought it up because Americans will turn on each other in a heartbeat, like sharks, and live in quiet servitude of people from the outside that do far worse.

The saddest part would be the few that would see the context.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Hornady is an American company manufacturing in the USA..you should be proud of it instead of bashing it.

The Hornady trimmer is different than the Hendersen.
Hendersen copied and use the Forster shell holder ( they even interchange) and their cutting head is a copy of the RCBS trimmer head. They do not make the electric motor and belt they are using.

Exactly.

 

[J.D.Erwin]

It’s not new that companies put their name on products that they do not make. Actually it’s the norm. You can name almost every big store that offered products - guns at the turn of the century did it. Sears Roebuck ( Marlin) - CIL ( anschutz) as an example, and almost anything they sold.

Many Western countries - not just USA - went China - Taiwan - Philipines and many more -for their manufacturing their products. Now we are complaining that those products are copied. Harley Davidson- an American icon got their casting from south Korea..most of not all their add on accessories are made in the Philipines are stamped as such.

When I worked overseas - Mercedez Benz had a factory in Turkey that they ended up closing. Guess what - Turkey continued to make parts and sell them as genuine at 25% of the parts sold by Mercedez.

The western countries did it to themselves - for gread- cheaper production cost.

Hornady is an American company manufacturing in the USA..you should be proud of it instead of bashing it.

The Hornady trimmer is different than the Hendersen.
Hendersen copied and use the Forster shell holder ( they even interchange) and their cutting head is a copy of the RCBS trimmer head. They do not make the electric motor and belt they are using.

I am still awaiting for a Hendersen trimmer owner to post picture of the ‘Patent pending’ or a ‘patent number ‘ on the trimmer…because nowhere ..on their website - instructions - video’s there is a word about a patent…

^^^^^^^^ what he said. Now back to reloading with my hornady,Lee,Harrells,Frankford,RCBS,Lyman,Whidden,LE Wilson.and many more companies tools and products that I've enjoyed for too many years.
AMERICA IS STILL THE BEST SPOT ON THE ROCK!!!!!!!

 

[old_heli_logger]

Apparently Henderson didn't patent properly. If it did have a patent.

Sorry my friend but patents don't work or there would only be one car, one fan, one reloading die, one reloading press, one airplane, one etc...are you sure you want that?

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Your choice, as all of us have in products to buy, which is well and good. But I wonder who Berger looked closely at, in the bullet lines and then proceeded to use as a guide to improve on and come up with his style and type of bullet design ?
It all boils down to taking any product, using it as a guide and changing it into your product, does it not ?

as far as i know, berger invented the hybrid ogive. i'm excited to start using a bullet maker who is on the forefront of innovation and also has people like bryan litz assisting them in advancements.

Hornady is an American company manufacturing in the USA..you should be proud of it instead of bashing it.

The Hornady trimmer is different than the Hendersen.
Hendersen copied and use the Forster shell holder ( they even interchange) and their cutting head is a copy of the RCBS trimmer head. They do not make the electric motor and belt they are using.

Hornady clearly copied off the henderson and is attempting to undercut them for profit. Trying to say it's different than the henderson is laughable. If they are as innovative as they say they are, they wouldn't have needed to do that.

it's about as bad as kamala announcing no tax on tips and the media hyping it up like it was some brand new amazing idea.

i'm no longer falling for Hornady's marketing illusions.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

My latest Hornady product tells down there at the bottom about pretty much the world we be live in today.