New barrel= no copper?

[mattri]

New barrel, 308 win 1:8 SS with Shilen's ratchet rifling.

Did barrel break in today but didn't get any copper on patches.

Normal break in is 1 shot then clean for 5 rounds, 3 shots and clean x5, then 5 shots and clean x5. By then the barrel usually tells me if I need to continue. Cleaning is a few patches of Hoppes till they're clean, then a few patches of Barnes copper solvent, nylon brush, more patches and copper solvent until no more blue on patches, a few dry patches then light oil.

Today I got no blue on patches at all. Cleaned per usual, let the solvent soak, ran the nylon brush a few more times etc- just never got a hint of blue.

Was using a medium load of CFE223 and cheap Hornady 150s fwiw.

Usually break in goes as one would expect- factory barrels are awful, prefits aren't bad and better barrels- Bartleins etc- are much better but still get some initial copper out.

Thoughts?

 

[quest450]

since you're doing the barrel break in why not get a borescope ?

 

[mattri]

A handy tool for sure.

Even without a borescope it was evident that copper was being removed in various amounts from the other barrels, but nothing from this one.

 

[Old Navy]

Shine a light in the muzzle to see if there is any copper.

 

[D the D]

CFE stands for Copper Fouling Eraser, so maybe it really works. The last Shilen 6.5 barrel I purchased barely showed any copper using Ramshot Hunter.

 

[Prose]

Thoughts?

Is this your first shilen barrel? They aren't usually collecting much copper. I don't think I've ever seen any in mine even after a few hundred shots in the varmint guns.

 

[mattri]

Have had a number of shilens, and they usually clean up well but have always got some blue on the patches.

Will do some more digging today.

 

[6.5 forever]

Have had a number of shilens, and they usually clean up well but have always got some blue on the patches.

Will do some more digging today.

Why worry? Don't dig, shoot it.

 

[Dgd6mm]

My Shilen's had sighs of what I consider normal copper fouling. My X-Caliber on the other hand is a copper mine.

 

[CharlieNC]

CFE stands for Copper Fouling Eraser, so maybe it really works. The last Shilen 6.5 barrel I purchased barely showed any copper using Ramshot Hunter.

CFE absolutely works, I've shot thousands of rounds using it with zero copper deposits. But it is dirty.

 

[FNSafari]

New barrel, 308 win 1:8 SS with Shilen's ratchet rifling.

Did barrel break in today but didn't get any copper on patches.

Normal break in is 1 shot then clean for 5 rounds, 3 shots and clean x5, then 5 shots and clean x5. By then the barrel usually tells me if I need to continue. Cleaning is a few patches of Hoppes till they're clean, then a few patches of Barnes copper solvent, nylon brush, more patches and copper solvent until no more blue on patches, a few dry patches then light oil.

Today I got no blue on patches at all. Cleaned per usual, let the solvent soak, ran the nylon brush a few more times etc- just never got a hint of blue.

Was using a medium load of CFE223 and cheap Hornady 150s fwiw.

Usually break in goes as one would expect- factory barrels are awful, prefits aren't bad and better barrels- Bartleins etc- are much better but still get some initial copper out.

Thoughts?

Consider yourself lucky that you have a barrel that doesn't copper foul. Most good hand lapped barrels like the Shilen match selects stop fouling very quickly.

 

[KMart]

New barrel, 308 win 1:8 SS with Shilen's ratchet rifling.

Did barrel break in today but didn't get any copper on patches.

Normal break in is 1 shot then clean for 5 rounds, 3 shots and clean x5, then 5 shots and clean x5. By then the barrel usually tells me if I need to continue. Cleaning is a few patches of Hoppes till they're clean, then a few patches of Barnes copper solvent, nylon brush, more patches and copper solvent until no more blue on patches, a few dry patches then light oil.

Today I got no blue on patches at all. Cleaned per usual, let the solvent soak, ran the nylon brush a few more times etc- just never got a hint of blue.

Was using a medium load of CFE223 and cheap Hornady 150s fwiw.

Usually break in goes as one would expect- factory barrels are awful, prefits aren't bad and better barrels- Bartleins etc- are much better but still get some initial copper out.

Thoughts?

I recently installed a 17 twist Shilen ratchet barrel on a 30x47 and a 13 twist ratchet on a 308. Like you, I haven't found any copper yet. Using Varget in the 308 and VV 135 and 540 in the 30X47. Have less than 200 rounds on both barrels.

 

[K22]

Just curious - and I preface my remarks with the admission I know very little theoretically, if anything, about this issue of so called "copper fouling", only what I have experienced.

Case in point. In 2009, my smith installed a 26" Douglas match barrel (heavy contour) reamed for a 223 Rem on my Remington 700 action. I never "broke it in" except to initially clean it to remove any manufacturer's preservative then to shoot a few rounds to initially sight in the scope.

After some brief load development, this rifle shot in the .15's to .2's. I only ever cleaned it about every 50 rounds with a simple solvent (Shooter's Choice or Hoppe's 9) and bronze brush and it has retained about a level of .2's to .4's*, now at 1,704 rounds as of the close of varmint season in September.

*This may not be an accurate statement statistically in the sense that I do very little shooting off the bench. Most of my range shooting is practical - off cross sticks - field practice for varmint / predator hunting. But those "practical" results strongly support that the has been little decline in accuracy.

 

[mattri]

For kicks I tried some Sweets today. Same routine, a few soaked patches, nylon brush, let it soak- and again absolutely no blue tint to the patch at all.
Maybe that CFE really works, who knows?

 

[urbanrifleman]

The copper comes from the throat tearing the jacket. Break in smooths the machining in the throat... Not really the barrel.

 

[mattri]

Well I finally got some blue patches.

Did a little load development, shot about 40 rounds.

Came home and cleaned per usual and after soaking and then nylon brush with solvent first patch was blue. Repeated a few times and it cleaned right up.

 

[JBT47]

Maybe just a really good sharp reamer cutting the freebore and leaving hardly no burr or machine marks as that’s where the copper fouling comes from that we are trying to knock down doing a shoot and clean break-in.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Its typical to not see copper in a fresh barrel if the chambers cut well and its a quality blank. Id say over 50% wont copper even on the first shot. With quality work and blanks theres really nothing to break in. I tell guys to just shoot them as they normally would. There will be a speed up in most but thats from the lapped surface smoothing out. It will happen no matter what you do.

 

[Tesoro]

I'd buy a Teslong before ordering my first custom barrel. There is alot more to inspect than just copper deposits.

 

[tiny68]

Bore scopes will tell you that you need to replace any factor barrel is my experience. I have inherited a few Ruger M77 a few years back. All decent shooters. Owned by a man that loved and carried for his guns. I got an older tang safety M77 243 Varmint out this Fall and started playing with it. I started with shooting some groups with his reloads Nosler 90gr BT. Consistent 0.75" 5 shot groups. No flyers. Then I bore scoped it. I have never seen such a dirty carbon and copper filled barrel. I made a video for before and after comparison. I cleaned Hoppes 9 - tons of black patches ,then Butches Bore Shine - tons of blue patches, then I soaked over in Wipe-Foam with a plug in the chamber. When I pushed the foam residue out it looked like a penny's worth of copper particles in the patch trap. It was crazy. I didn't have my phone. I should have stop and taken a picture. More dry patches then followed with a 2 hour soak of Butches Bore Shine - this is a NOS bottle of the old BBS with ammonia in it. Still tons of blue. Bore scoped again. Moderate fire cracking in first 0.5" barrel to the lands. Fair amount of corrosion near the muzzle in a few places. Some more carbon to remove near the throat. I would be thinking this is a piece of junk. It looks like a kids train track in most of the barrel. But then I look at the groups it just shot.

The gentleman I inherited these from took care of his guns. We was a retired mechanic and machinist. When I was cleaning up his reloading/gun room after he passed - the thing I notice was the lack of cleaning supplies. He had more than 150 firearms in +50 calibers. He only had one cleaning rod. He didn't own a bore guide. He didn't have a single brush. He only cleaned with a wet patch and I am not even sure what his favorite cleaning solvent was. He definitely didn't have any dedicated copper cleaners. Yet all of the guns he pasted to me will shoot sub-MOA and these are well used factory rifles.

I understand if you want to shoot benchrest or other competitive shooting you need the greatest edge. I am still trying find a balance of how much to clean a factory barrel that is just going to collect copper for the next few shoots. Do I take a different approach to my custom hand lapped barrel - yes without a doubt. I want to see clean lands so I can follow the degradation of the barrel with its life span. I never scoped a factory Savage barrel that I though had a chance of shooting a sub-MOA group - yet I own several of them that will. They look terrible when compared to the glamour of custom barrel.

I think I am getting to the age of shoot and mildly clean until there is a problem.

Things we get obsessed about in the winter....

Luck, Tim