New 6mm AR-15 pressure tested wildcat cartridge! 6MM MAX
- Thread starter BCPB6mmMAX
- Start date
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
Not exactly sure why I was quoted here and trying to sort it out in a PM got me accused of posting a drive by comment with an opinion based on nothing but thin air, because clearly I had not read or understood the original post or anything else about the cartridge.
At the time I originally posted, the debate was safety due to high pressures and the sales pitch for the newest greatest cartridge seeking SAMMI approval. My statement was pretty simple. Nothing in this thread so far, is cutting edge or new. I will elaborate, but everything I referenced is pretty well known in the AR world.
The 350 Legend, your parent case, cut the trail you’re following. That cartridge was thoroughly tested to the same pressures you are using. I doubt (actually know) you’re not (edit) the first to use that case for a “wildcat”, you do seem to be the first to spend the time and money to gain SAAMI approval. That actually deserves tremendous respect, and you have it from me for that. I also think it’s a pretty good idea.
Thinking it’s a neat new cartridge does not mean I’ll stick my head in the sand and praise it as something really all that different. It has some nice refinements and any velocity increase is always welcome.
You base much of your innovation claims on a 2.300” loaded length. As I said before, HK magazines have allowed that for years, but as far as I know there is no SAMMI approval for magazines, so it was never a part of anyone’s specs, until the 350 legend came around. 95% of your gains came from the case, the .040" length does allow your claim to Max tho.
You use the word “all” when you should use “most” or “many” or "bullets you offer data for". You give the impression that any 6mm bullet between 55-100 grains can be loaded to 2.300”, with minimal change in jump. With nose length variations over .150”, I would challenge that.
Not saying you can't hand select 30 bullets that fit your claim, but I can probably find as many that don't.
I would also guess there are many bullets that will have the radius of the nose below the neck. Any bullet with a nose longer than .585” has this potential. Probably why you chose the 95 grain Berger Classic Hunter instead of the VLD Hunter.
So when I look at the total package, I don't see a whole lot of innovation or new. I see someone dedicated enough to take a lot of what was already out there and combining it into a neat package and being dedicated enough to take it to market. Very few people who come with a cartridge have that drive. To me that's the special part.
All that said, it's a good idea with a lot of potential. It has a lot more potential in a rifle that uses an AI pattern magazine tho.
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Not exactly sure why I was quoted here and trying to sort it out in a PM got me accused of posting a drive by comment with an opinion based on nothing but thin air, because clearly I had not read or understood the original post or anything else about the cartridge.
At the time I originally posted, the debate was safety due to high pressures and the sales pitch for the newest greatest cartridge seeking SAMMI approval. My statement was pretty simple. Nothing in this thread so far, is cutting edge or new. I will elaborate, but everything I referenced is pretty well known in the AR world.
The 350 Legend, your parent case, cut the trail you’re following. That cartridge was thoroughly tested to the same pressures you are using. I doubt (actually know) you’re the first to use that case for a “wildcat”, you do seem to be the first to spend the time and money to gain SAAMI approval. That actually deserves tremendous respect, and you have it from me for that. I also think it’s a pretty good idea.
Thinking it’s a neat new cartridge does not mean I’ll stick my head in the sand and praise it as something really all that different. It has some nice refinements and any velocity increase is always welcome.
You base much of your innovation claims on a 2.300” loaded length. As I said before, HK magazines have allowed that for years, but as far as I know there is no SAMMI approval for magazines, so it was never a part of anyone’s specs, until the 350 legend came around. 95% of your gains came from the case, the .040" length does allow your claim to Max tho.
You use the word “all” when you should use “most” or “many” or "bullets you offer data for". You give the impression that any 6mm bullet between 55-100 grains can be loaded to 2.300”, with minimal change in jump. With nose length variations over .150”, I would challenge that.
Not saying you can't hand select 30 bullets that fit your claim, but I can probably find as many that don't.
I would also guess there are many bullets that will have the radius of the nose below the neck. Any bullet with a nose longer than .585” has this potential. Probably why you chose the 95 grain Berger Classic Hunter instead of the VLD Hunter.
So when I look at the total package, I don't see a whole lot of innovation or new. I see someone dedicated enough to take a lot of what was already out there and combining it into a neat package and being dedicated enough to take it to market. Very few people who come with a cartridge have that drive. To me that's the special part.
All that said, it's a good idea with a lot of potential. It has a lot more potential in a rifle that uses an AI pattern magazine tho.
Very educated response",..Not exactly sure why I was quoted here and trying to sort it out in a PM got me accused of posting a drive by comment with an opinion based on nothing but thin air, because clearly I had not read or understood the original post or anything else about the cartridge.
At the time I originally posted, the debate was safety due to high pressures and the sales pitch for the newest greatest cartridge seeking SAMMI approval. My statement was pretty simple. Nothing in this thread so far, is cutting edge or new. I will elaborate, but everything I referenced is pretty well known in the AR world.
The 350 Legend, your parent case, cut the trail you’re following. That cartridge was thoroughly tested to the same pressures you are using. I doubt (actually know) you’re not (edit) the first to use that case for a “wildcat”, you do seem to be the first to spend the time and money to gain SAAMI approval. That actually deserves tremendous respect, and you have it from me for that. I also think it’s a pretty good idea.
Thinking it’s a neat new cartridge does not mean I’ll stick my head in the sand and praise it as something really all that different. It has some nice refinements and any velocity increase is always welcome.
You base much of your innovation claims on a 2.300” loaded length. As I said before, HK magazines have allowed that for years, but as far as I know there is no SAMMI approval for magazines, so it was never a part of anyone’s specs, until the 350 legend came around. 95% of your gains came from the case, the .040" length does allow your claim to Max tho.
You use the word “all” when you should use “most” or “many” or "bullets you offer data for". You give the impression that any 6mm bullet between 55-100 grains can be loaded to 2.300”, with minimal change in jump. With nose length variations over .150”, I would challenge that.
Not saying you can't hand select 30 bullets that fit your claim, but I can probably find as many that don't.
I would also guess there are many bullets that will have the radius of the nose below the neck. Any bullet with a nose longer than .585” has this potential. Probably why you chose the 95 grain Berger Classic Hunter instead of the VLD Hunter.
So when I look at the total package, I don't see a whole lot of innovation or new. I see someone dedicated enough to take a lot of what was already out there and combining it into a neat package and being dedicated enough to take it to market. Very few people who come with a cartridge have that drive. To me that's the special part.
All that said, it's a good idea with a lot of potential. It has a lot more potential in a rifle that uses an AI pattern magazine tho.
I could not have done any better!
I want to say thank you for taking the time to research and post an accurate in-depth understanding of this cartridge.Not exactly sure why I was quoted here and trying to sort it out in a PM got me accused of posting a drive by comment with an opinion based on nothing but thin air, because clearly I had not read or understood the original post or anything else about the cartridge.
At the time I originally posted, the debate was safety due to high pressures and the sales pitch for the newest greatest cartridge seeking SAMMI approval. My statement was pretty simple. Nothing in this thread so far, is cutting edge or new. I will elaborate, but everything I referenced is pretty well known in the AR world.
The 350 Legend, your parent case, cut the trail you’re following. That cartridge was thoroughly tested to the same pressures you are using. I doubt (actually know) you’re not (edit) the first to use that case for a “wildcat”, you do seem to be the first to spend the time and money to gain SAAMI approval. That actually deserves tremendous respect, and you have it from me for that. I also think it’s a pretty good idea.
Thinking it’s a neat new cartridge does not mean I’ll stick my head in the sand and praise it as something really all that different. It has some nice refinements and any velocity increase is always welcome.
You base much of your innovation claims on a 2.300” loaded length. As I said before, HK magazines have allowed that for years, but as far as I know there is no SAMMI approval for magazines, so it was never a part of anyone’s specs, until the 350 legend came around. 95% of your gains came from the case, the .040" length does allow your claim to Max tho.
You use the word “all” when you should use “most” or “many” or "bullets you offer data for". You give the impression that any 6mm bullet between 55-100 grains can be loaded to 2.300”, with minimal change in jump. With nose length variations over .150”, I would challenge that.
Not saying you can't hand select 30 bullets that fit your claim, but I can probably find as many that don't.
I would also guess there are many bullets that will have the radius of the nose below the neck. Any bullet with a nose longer than .585” has this potential. Probably why you chose the 95 grain Berger Classic Hunter instead of the VLD Hunter.
So when I look at the total package, I don't see a whole lot of innovation or new. I see someone dedicated enough to take a lot of what was already out there and combining it into a neat package and being dedicated enough to take it to market. Very few people who come with a cartridge have that drive. To me that's the special part.
All that said, it's a good idea with a lot of potential. It has a lot more potential in a rifle that uses an AI pattern magazine tho.
I used the word "all" referencing the bullets in our load data and I'm glad you clarified that from a reader's perspective. I have discussed the variations in bullet jump on my home page as "relatively consistent".
This can be broken down into two groups. VLD's and all others. Or another way to say this for the well versed is the tangent and secant ogive versions. I make this statement in comparison to other cartridges that are designed and optimized for one vary long bullet.
You are correct in your math of .585 and we accommodate approx. 25 different bullets varying in weight from 55-100. Thats an extensive list that omits 2 bullets. I believe from memory are the 88gr flat base High BC VLD and the 95gr VLD hunter you pointed out. Not vary consequential when you look at the list of choices.
I agree with you on the AI mag and its in the works. I'm also developing a bolt gun load to accommodate the berger 105 hybrid magazine fed, but first things first.
https://shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=7137450d
Here is a link to a comparison of AR-15 cartridges. I used SAAMI data where available and military data where available on 5.56 NATO for Ballistics coefficient and velocity. I have not cherry-picked bullets to make any one cartridge appear better than another. I used the bullet weights from saami also. If there is an egregious
error in my data of making this calculator please let me know so I can correct it. IF I omitted a cartridge, please let me know.
I post this chart to illustrate drop, drift and energy down range so readers have an understanding of where the 6mm MAX compares to all other choices available for the task at hand.
Here is a link to a comparison of AR-15 cartridges. I used SAAMI data where available and military data where available on 5.56 NATO for Ballistics coefficient and velocity. I have not cherry-picked bullets to make any one cartridge appear better than another. I used the bullet weights from saami also. If there is an egregious
error in my data of making this calculator please let me know so I can correct it. IF I omitted a cartridge, please let me know.
I post this chart to illustrate drop, drift and energy down range so readers have an understanding of where the 6mm MAX compares to all other choices available for the task at hand.
alf
Silver $$ Contributor
One important detail missing is barrel lengths......
Rocketvapor
Gold $$ Contributor
The charts do indicate muzzle velocity.
Now for the forgotten 22 Nosler
Using max load 2890fps from Hodgdon Data for a 24" barrel and the 90 grain SMK,
I get 3000fps with SB6.5 for the 88ELDM from a 28" barrel so 2890fps seems reasonable for a 24".
I got 3.1 -3.2 mils @ 600yds (last match) but at 20' elev and 85F. These are loaded really long
Here's a comparison between the MAX and the 22N. Granted this is a narrow use paper punching application, with wind a major issue. This is ONLY a simple comparison, for fun
Oops, error. Used the 85.5 G7, 0.268 in the chart instead of the 88 G7, 0.274, but you get the point.
(Thanks for the like Bill)
Now for the forgotten 22 Nosler
Using max load 2890fps from Hodgdon Data for a 24" barrel and the 90 grain SMK,
I get 3000fps with SB6.5 for the 88ELDM from a 28" barrel so 2890fps seems reasonable for a 24".
I got 3.1 -3.2 mils @ 600yds (last match) but at 20' elev and 85F. These are loaded really long
Here's a comparison between the MAX and the 22N. Granted this is a narrow use paper punching application, with wind a major issue. This is ONLY a simple comparison, for fun
Oops, error. Used the 85.5 G7, 0.268 in the chart instead of the 88 G7, 0.274, but you get the point.
(Thanks for the like Bill)
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The charts do indicate muzzle velocity.
Now for the forgotten 22 Nosler
Using max load 2890fps from Hodgdon Data for a 24" barrel and the 90 grain SMK,
I get 3000fps with SB6.5 for the 88ELDM from a 28" barrel so 2890fps seems reasonable for a 24".
I got 3.1 -3.2 mils @ 600yds (last match) but at 20' elev and 85F. These are loaded really long
Here's a comparison between the MAX and the 22N. Granted this is a narrow use paper punching application, with wind a major issue. This is ONLY a simple comparison, for fun
View attachment 1364767
Oops, error. Used the 85.5 G7, 0.268 in the chart instead of the 88 G7, 0.274, but you get the point.
(Thanks for the like Brian)
good data and gives great comparison.
sorry about forgetting the 22nosler
sorry about forgetting the 22nosler
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Here’s is Saturday’s CTSA F-class match as promised. This was shot with Barrett DMR piston chambered in 6mm MAX. 20” Bartlein barrel , suppressed
1-6 power sig LPVO. At 500 yards I could see the number over target and the 1 inch marker. My score was 574-17x.
Brian
1-6 power sig LPVO. At 500 yards I could see the number over target and the 1 inch marker. My score was 574-17x.
Brian
Attachments
We’re headed to the lab this weekend . We’re going to fill the holes in the reloading charts and
Add AR Comp, 15.5TS, 6.5 staball, RL7, Varget and AR plus. In addition we will be adding a Bolt gun ONLY load section that utilizes AI Mags with the 105 Hybrid and 108 ELD-M long loaded for bolt guns . Initial testing has been promising.
Brian
Add AR Comp, 15.5TS, 6.5 staball, RL7, Varget and AR plus. In addition we will be adding a Bolt gun ONLY load section that utilizes AI Mags with the 105 Hybrid and 108 ELD-M long loaded for bolt guns . Initial testing has been promising.
Brian
Larryh128
Silver $$ Contributor
I had a 22 Nosler for a short time, as did quite a few others for a short time. I appreciate digging up bad memories.The charts do indicate muzzle velocity.
Now for the forgotten 22 Nosler
Using max load 2890fps from Hodgdon Data for a 24" barrel and the 90 grain SMK,
I get 3000fps with SB6.5 for the 88ELDM from a 28" barrel so 2890fps seems reasonable for a 24".
I got 3.1 -3.2 mils @ 600yds (last match) but at 20' elev and 85F. These are loaded really long
Here's a comparison between the MAX and the 22N. Granted this is a narrow use paper punching application, with wind a major issue. This is ONLY a simple comparison, for fun
View attachment 1364767
Oops, error. Used the 85.5 G7, 0.268 in the chart instead of the 88 G7, 0.274, but you get the point.
(Thanks for the like Bill)
Hi all,
We wrapped up 2 days of lab pressure testing on weds in Socorro. As always we learned. We were able to expand our load data and fill all the holes in the loading chart that we missed on the first attempt. Look for the load data page to be updated in the coming weeks.
Brian
We wrapped up 2 days of lab pressure testing on weds in Socorro. As always we learned. We were able to expand our load data and fill all the holes in the loading chart that we missed on the first attempt. Look for the load data page to be updated in the coming weeks.
Brian
Hi All,
Been awhile since I’ve posted. As someone has stated above the work has just begun.
Quick Update:
Sept was round 2 of pressure testing. Reloading charts are now updated on the web. We were able to fill all the holes on our load chart with at least one powder combination and we added additional bullets and powders. We completed H4895 top to bottom. Added AR-Comp, RL15.5 TS, VV540. We tested varget, 6.5 Staball , RL-15.5TS for PRS bolt gun loads. These bolt gun loads are not posted in our reload data but I’m happy to share via DM. Varget and the 105hybrid are being utilized this weekend at a PRS club match (bolt gun) here in Texas. I’ll post the results.
Since the lab we have been shifting into go mode.
Barrels are ordered ( still waiting) , 100 dies have arrived from LEE, we have completed a successful demo for a major AR-15 company and we are going to shot show in January. To say we’re burning the midnight oil would be appropriate. We’re getting closer to launch everyday.
Thanks
Brian
Been awhile since I’ve posted. As someone has stated above the work has just begun.
Quick Update:
Sept was round 2 of pressure testing. Reloading charts are now updated on the web. We were able to fill all the holes on our load chart with at least one powder combination and we added additional bullets and powders. We completed H4895 top to bottom. Added AR-Comp, RL15.5 TS, VV540. We tested varget, 6.5 Staball , RL-15.5TS for PRS bolt gun loads. These bolt gun loads are not posted in our reload data but I’m happy to share via DM. Varget and the 105hybrid are being utilized this weekend at a PRS club match (bolt gun) here in Texas. I’ll post the results.
Since the lab we have been shifting into go mode.
Barrels are ordered ( still waiting) , 100 dies have arrived from LEE, we have completed a successful demo for a major AR-15 company and we are going to shot show in January. To say we’re burning the midnight oil would be appropriate. We’re getting closer to launch everyday.
Thanks
Brian
Attachments
Do you have brass available?
Reamer rental?...
We currently have 9600 pieces of brass in stock which covers 45 or so uppers at 200 pieces of brass each. Consideration hasn’t been given for reamer rental at this time. It might be an option at some point.
We will be offing uppers with dies and brass as a package.
Our primary focus currently is securing a substantially large initial order of brass from starline.
More news to follow shot show.
Brian
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