I believe this was the article I remember on the M855A1
New 6mm AR-15 pressure tested wildcat cartridge! 6MM MAX
- Thread starter BCPB6mmMAX
- Start date
I believe this was the article I remember on the M855A1
The Grendel with lapua brass is hard to beat. I have a DPMS in .338 Federal that I hand load for with Speer 200 hot core at 2600fps. Nothing stops that thick jacket and it crushes bone.
It’s a bang flop AR.
dellet
Gold $$ Contributor
Not trying to take away from any body's work or project, but there is absolutely nothing cutting edge or uncharted here except maybe gas port size, or powder choice.
The 350 Legend was SAAMI approved at 55,000 psi.
People have used HK magazines to load to 2.290-2.300" for years.
6mm bullets in an AR, been done.
Arguing over .223 vs 5.56 pressures, beat to death.
The only thing I would point out is the newer Military loads exceed SAAMI pressures by around 10%. It's the only way to get heavier bullets traveling faster in a shorter barrel.
In typical fashion all they want is results, No one cares if bolts fail and barrels wear out faster. No one in the Pentagon pays for the components, and it's damn sure that no one making the decision risks having a weapon fail in a fire fight.
They don't ask for approval and very rarely ask for forgiveness when it goes wrong.
On a side note, I was wondering how long before the 350 Legend case became a parent. Hope the cartridge is a success.
The 350 Legend was SAAMI approved at 55,000 psi.
People have used HK magazines to load to 2.290-2.300" for years.
6mm bullets in an AR, been done.
Arguing over .223 vs 5.56 pressures, beat to death.
The only thing I would point out is the newer Military loads exceed SAAMI pressures by around 10%. It's the only way to get heavier bullets traveling faster in a shorter barrel.
In typical fashion all they want is results, No one cares if bolts fail and barrels wear out faster. No one in the Pentagon pays for the components, and it's damn sure that no one making the decision risks having a weapon fail in a fire fight.
They don't ask for approval and very rarely ask for forgiveness when it goes wrong.
On a side note, I was wondering how long before the 350 Legend case became a parent. Hope the cartridge is a success.
somewhere around 12 years ago i started shooting the 6woa, one of the 6x6.8spc wildcats. 65gr vmax's at 3400+ with ease, with quite a few powders. 87gr pills at 3000. none of this at high pressure and great accuracy. never shot anything bigger than 87 since the ar15 just does not have the boiler room to push them at the speeds that make it worth it.
6.8 bolts are not breaking all over the place
i am all in on making new stuff even if its redundant but not sure i get the point of this one, seems like a lot of work (thousands of hours) to build something that underperforms next to things that were around over a decade ago
6.8 bolts are not breaking all over the place
i am all in on making new stuff even if its redundant but not sure i get the point of this one, seems like a lot of work (thousands of hours) to build something that underperforms next to things that were around over a decade ago
Will the 6x6.8 load anything heavier than 87gr to 2.260 mag length and have the ogive outside the neck?
I wouldn’t say our numbers are underperforming by any stretch of the imagination .
55gr nosler 3553
70gr blitz 3338
77gr MTH 3110 solid copper
87gr VLD. 3009
90gr ELD-x. 2944
95gr nosler. 2844
100gr sierra. 2762
These rounds are all loaded 2.300 and fit standard .350 legend mag. The 100 gr hornady spbt can be crimped at cannelure if desired.
Attachments
So let me get this right..Hi No manches,
I can post pics of case and cartridge. THE 6MM MAXIs trademarked and reamer drawings our still in house.
It's a lengthen 223 case with better shoulder, case capacity bout 3% more give and take_or equal to the 223 ackley version "..
And won't do better that the proven 6mm-47(6mm-22 magnum case!..
Uhmm*
Sorry bother but Im not sold", ....just cause it feeds out of an AR magazine...
This is truly redundant".
Last edited:
@No manches"
I think the 350 Legend case body diameter is a little bigger than the the .223/222 magnum cases.
I do think that calling this a MAX is a little prresumptuous 
If neck length and free bore allows a wide range of bullet weights that is good.
I think the 350 Legend case body diameter is a little bigger than the the .223/222 magnum cases.
I do think that calling this a MAX
is a little prresumptuous If neck length and free bore allows a wide range of bullet weights that is good.
Where is the chamber print?
I would go back and read OP.
This cartridge is not a .223 or a variant there of.
The 6mm MAX parent is the .350 legend and holds 35 grains of water . A .223 holds 28grns. It’s more than 3% , I’ll let you do the math.
We load 55gr -100gr bullets all @2.300 and magazine feed without mods. we’ve spent 100’s of hours studying bullet lengths and ogive’s to achieve this. I don’t know of any other cartridge that does this? If their is such a saami cartridge please post it ? I’m always researching .
I am putting together a terminal ballistic comparison on AR-15 cartridges so data will show where we compare with others rounds .
The chamber print is in my safe.
The 6mm MAX is tested to SAAMI standards, this cartridge is not a SAAMI approved cartridge yet.
I look forward to the day it’s accepted .
Well, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt just to be different but have seen many of the AR15 6mm wildcats used in NRA highpower. None is a legit 1000yd cartridge and nobody with any real sense thinks an ar15 is useful that far. The valkyrie didn't live up to its claims, the 22 nosler case head was too soft, the 6 turbo/fat rat takes some work, etc.
Good luck with your endeavor and I realize you're trying to drum up interest at this point but it will be uphill until you have brass(it needs to be tough) and people can mess around with the cartridge.
Standard AR15 bolts are tough and a rem 7 ¹/² or cci 450 is plenty sturdy. I for one hope it will do what you say, just for the possibility to get the performance by just changing mags and barrel, so I won't completely $h!t all over your attempt to do something new. The skepticism is well founded but i hope this one works.
Good luck with your endeavor and I realize you're trying to drum up interest at this point but it will be uphill until you have brass(it needs to be tough) and people can mess around with the cartridge.
Standard AR15 bolts are tough and a rem 7 ¹/² or cci 450 is plenty sturdy. I for one hope it will do what you say, just for the possibility to get the performance by just changing mags and barrel, so I won't completely $h!t all over your attempt to do something new. The skepticism is well founded but i hope this one works.
Brian & Mike,
I salute your efforts, your dedication to something you're passionate about, the toil you've spent in the sport we all love so much here @ Accurate Shooter. I think what you guys have done is great. I love it when someone takes a risk, shares it with a piece of the world, and has the courage to stay in there even when the going gets tough.
I like it that there are metallic cartridge options out there other than just the 30-06, 22LR. I like that there are what, a half-dozen or more options for .222 bore AR-15 chambers, and probably the same for 6mm bore AR-15 chambers, too.
We have some great rounds that were original, right out of the factory. But facing the facts, the vast majority of what we have are a wildcat of this or a lengthened that, or a necked down this or a blown out that. Then we can Ackley or Improve or whatever we want to call it, most anything that's out there.
It's 2022. Most of what's now introduced for chamber options in our sport is splitting hairs. But to me, that's a big part of what makes it fun. Some are big flops. No need to name those. Some are tremendous successes. Some fall flat when introduced (327 Federal comes to mind), and have a cult following a decade later.
You two probably thought most of the work with your project was behind you. I bet in the last couple days, you've learned that most of the work might well lie ahead. Stay the course. You don't owe that to any of us, but you do owe it to yourselves. Stay the course and continue to pursue this. I can tell you're passionate about it, and take it from someone who knows, you won't forgive yourselves if you quit.
I salute your efforts, your dedication to something you're passionate about, the toil you've spent in the sport we all love so much here @ Accurate Shooter. I think what you guys have done is great. I love it when someone takes a risk, shares it with a piece of the world, and has the courage to stay in there even when the going gets tough.
I like it that there are metallic cartridge options out there other than just the 30-06, 22LR. I like that there are what, a half-dozen or more options for .222 bore AR-15 chambers, and probably the same for 6mm bore AR-15 chambers, too.
We have some great rounds that were original, right out of the factory. But facing the facts, the vast majority of what we have are a wildcat of this or a lengthened that, or a necked down this or a blown out that. Then we can Ackley or Improve or whatever we want to call it, most anything that's out there.
It's 2022. Most of what's now introduced for chamber options in our sport is splitting hairs. But to me, that's a big part of what makes it fun. Some are big flops. No need to name those. Some are tremendous successes. Some fall flat when introduced (327 Federal comes to mind), and have a cult following a decade later.
You two probably thought most of the work with your project was behind you. I bet in the last couple days, you've learned that most of the work might well lie ahead. Stay the course. You don't owe that to any of us, but you do owe it to yourselves. Stay the course and continue to pursue this. I can tell you're passionate about it, and take it from someone who knows, you won't forgive yourselves if you quit.
Adam in WI
Practically lives here
I'm wondering what that case will do with the shoulder pushed as far forward as possible and necked down for the 50-60 grain .224 bullets.
Thank you for the kind words. I get it that most here want to see the details. Right now it is proprietary information. We would love to post everything. I can tell you this. We were Pressure Tested by a legend in the industry. You should have seen him when we were testing. He was so excited about what we have done, and worked diligently to assist us getting it tested. At the end, when we were leaving......He said "Guys.....you definitely have something worth marketing, and whatever you do, don't give anyone the reamer prints"....that is until completed negotiation. I also remember him asking us if we filed a Trade Mark. Our answer? Yes we did. We are trying to cover all the bases. We are really trying to bring a new cartridge to market the way it should be. We all know that the big guys in the industry control most of the industry. They call the shots. We are just a couple of joes with passion to create and market something like the days of old in the industry. Today, it's all about big corporations in the industry, cutting the little guy's innovation out of the picture. So we are doing it in a way to try to protect our innovation, and market it to them. To be honest? We love the idea of putting this out to the public, and generating a following. Something that will encourage the Big Boys ask us to the table. We all know about the thievery in the industry. It's tuff, but we are extremely passionate about this.
On a side note, let me tell me a little bit about us. We served in the Military. Brian served in the Army as a helicopter pilot, and I served in the Marine Corps as a KC-130 pilot. I retired from the Marine Corps in 2006. Both of us are Corporate Pilots right now. So we are doing this holding full time jobs, and all our spare time is dedicated to this project. So if we don't answer a post at a moments notice, we are working.
No one would make our brass fully formed. We contacted many in the industry. We all know the headwinds. So we were able to get 10k blank Starline .350 Legend brass, and formed them with Warner dies. Lazing the cartridges was very expensive. We had them laser etched with 6mm Max head stamp. As of right now, we have an order in for 100k fully formed brass from Starline. But we have to wait until their is a hole in production.
Nothing is easy right now in the industry. We all know why. What we were looking for in the forum is support. Support for the little guy. Rooting for the underdog for a change. That my friends, is the American Way. Have we all forgotten that? I hope not.
Thank you again for the kind words. We do have thick skin, and can take legit criticism. That's part of the process. But for people to chop us off at the knees when they haven't even really read the data on our website to include reloading data.......that's a hit job. I encourage everyone to go to our web site, and check out everything. We will be posting ladder tests and results to include videos in the future.
I can tell you this. EVERYONE at the range comes over and wants one. That's a true statement. Can't wait to get this to market.
Mike Bueschel
6mmMax.net
Attachments
We didn’t know what to call it at first . Something as simple as a name can be difficult. We wound up with MAX as this cartridge is maxed out dimensionally within the confines of the AR-15.@No manches"
I think the 350 Legend case body diameter is a little bigger than the the .223/222 magnum cases.
I do think that calling this a MAX
If neck length and free bore allows a wide range of bullet weights that is good.
So MAX it became.
Accuracy and performance sells. All wildcats start off proprietary . Tell hornady to give us a call. They wanted our reamer print as well.
If you haven’t looked at the brass industry lately, post Biden, you should. We have brought to market a new cartridge with starline brass through a pandemic and an industry shut down. Hopefully November will bring back some normalcy after 2 years of chaos?
How many sources of brass have you seen in the past 2 years? Range brass actually became a resale commodity . Never thought I would see that in my lifetime.
Not having a chamber print? Do you a chamber print for every weapon you own? I don’t .
I would agree an AR-15 has no business at 1000 yards other than keeping their heads down.
The 6mmMAX is no different in that regard. Can it hit a target at 1000 yards on a windless day? Yes.
We have published loads that stay SS past that distance but I agree there’s not enough energy left to be practical for anything but punching paper.
And there are many , many superior applications for that. The 6mmMAX was designed to improve the terminal ballistics of the M16 from a 300yard gun to a 600 yard gun. We have achieved this and with less pressure . We did it through larger bullets with higher BC and a case with enough powder to push heavies to useful velocities. There is no other cartridge that I know of that loads 55-100 gr bullets to the same OAL for the AR-15.
This is a one upper that does many jobs well and we are unique in the sense. With OAL being constant with all bullet weights ogive to land spread between bullets is reduced to a small margin. This has produced sub MOA accuracy across the board from light to heavy.
I will continue to post our progress with accuracy nodes for all bullets and powders .
Thanks for your support.
Brian
Hey guys.....just so you know, we have a contact page on our web site. We have emails, and phone numbers listed on the contact page. The reason I am bringing this up, is to let you know you have direct contact with us. Just go to our web site, and go to the contact page. That way, you can talk to us directly with your questions. Once we get product, we will advertise on this web site. That's what I promised the owner of Accurate Shooter. It's coming, and coming soon.
Mike Bueschel
6mmMax.net
Mike Bueschel
6mmMax.net
I assumed the name was from 6mm-357 Maximum Rimless though I realize that's not exactly what this is.
Standard bolt face is a plus, and I think 6mm is the way to go in an unsuppressed AR15.
Standard bolt face is a plus, and I think 6mm is the way to go in an unsuppressed AR15.
Well said. B&C, I applaud all your efforts in any attempts to better the shooting community! Whether it's a big leap or a small step. Keep up your hard work and i'll be watching this in the months and years to come. I also like the idea of a 6mm bore in an AR vs. a 223 and what you've done is give us another option. And it's just a barrel change, Nice!
Beside the fact that I would much rather see the likes of you two getting the credit for a legit cartridge over someone like a big manufacturer (Hornady or others).
Dan
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.