neck or full length sizing ?

[cw308]

daleboy
I can explain it easier , I take a 8 1/2 x 11 piece of paper , across the 11 side I space equally 3 one inch boxes with a 1/4" black outline or boarder , using a black magic marker around each box , this leaves a white 1/2" center . Looking through my scope on 24 power at 200 yards just right , not to big or small. Give it a try , I'm giving out my secrets . Hope it Helps .

 

[dolek]

daleboy
I can explain it easier , I take a 8 1/2 x 11 piece of paper , across the 11 side I space equally 3 one inch boxes with a 1/4" black outline or boarder , using a black magic marker around each box , this leaves a white 1/2" center . Looking through my scope on 24 power at 200 yards just right , not to big or small. Give it a try , I'm giving out my secrets . Hope it Helps .

Thanks for the explanation,I will give it a try. I was over-thinking it as I often do. Your secret is safe with me.

 

[Al Lu]

cw308 "Does the Forster hone die bottom at the Shell holder ." Yes but I was able to go in between 1/16 and 1/8 turn of the die to get the shoulder bump.

"How did you find the chamber length? Hornady Lock-N-Load O.A.L. gauge, afraid to do the wheeler methods as not very mechanical.

"doesn't seem like a beginner " read enough in this Forum and you get to follow "best" practices" and another reason why I happily subscribe! I feel so lucky that so many in this Forum are willing to help out. And thank you for your kind words.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

cw308 "Does the Forster hone die bottom at the Shell holder ." Yes but I was able to go in between 1/16 and 1/8 turn of the die to get the shoulder bump.

"How did you find the chamber length? Hornady Lock-N-Load O.A.L. gauge, afraid to do the wheeler methods as not very mechanical.

"doesn't seem like a beginner " read enough in this Forum and you get to follow "best" practices" and another reason why I happily subscribe! I feel so lucky that so many in this Forum are willing to help out. And thank you for your kind words.

The wheeler method is the method most precision shooters have used for many decades. It works every time and is repeatable to the .001 unlike the oal gage which requires special parts and isnt very repeatable anyway. Give it a try and youll get the hang of it. Make sure everything is clean and carbon free

 

[Paddyd]

Neck sizing works brass less, but after a few firings you need to FL size it . From a precision standpoint, this equates to firing cases of different dimensions every time which probably isn't a great thing. To keep everything consistent, I FL size cases each loading so I get the same case expansion in the chamber every time, vs having a case grow and be different size each loading.

 

[rebs]

The wheeler method is the method most precision shooters have used for many decades. It works every time and is repeatable to the .001 unlike the oal gage which requires special parts and isnt very repeatable anyway. Give it a try and youll get the hang of it. Make sure everything is clean and carbon free

do you have a link to the wheeler method ?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

do you have a link to the wheeler method ?

First result using the search function

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/finding-your-lands-video.3892411/

 

[cw308]

The wheeler method is working with your stripped bolt , to find your headspace it's on your bolt closure with no resistance , to find your ogive measurement is at the bolt lift without resistance . It is working off your locking lugs . I found it the best and repeatable measurements every time . I have a Remington , the bolt is easy to strip , I do leave the extractor in place , the firing pin assembly and plunger is removed . Being I only shoot benchrest , single feed , I installed a different spring to keep the plunger just below flush , my fired cases sit on the follower . If you can strip your bolt it's the best way to find both measurements . Hope this helped.

Chris

 

[cw308]

Al Lu
The Hornady OAL gauge will get you in the ball park but is not an exact only around measurement , give the stripped bolt method a try and compare it to the numbers your working with now . Everyone that is into precision reloading should give it a try . Hopefully stripping down your bolt shouldn't be that hard . Believe me it's worth a try .

PS: What maybe helpful is the Redding Competition Shellholders , it comes with 5 differen shellholders with different deck heights , they give you full contact between deck and die .
How did you find your case headspace?

Chris

 

[Ccrider]

If you do not have the tool to strip your bolt, size a piece of brass and seat a bullet long in the empty cartridge. Take it out and measure it. Use this as your starting point for jammed. Set up to seat .01 off of this measurement and work into or off of the lands using 002 or .003adjustments.

Not nearly as complicated but it works just fine for me.

 

[338 dude]

On 223 cases for a bolt gun are you guys neck or full length sizing ?

Generally speaking I only neck size for all rifles until there is a problem chambering the round then of course you would bump shoulders back and size the body as well

 

[BenPerfected]

Neck sizing works brass less, but after a few firings you need to FL size it . From a precision standpoint, this equates to firing cases of different dimensions every time which probably isn't a great thing. To keep everything consistent, I FL size cases each loading so I get the same case expansion in the chamber every time, vs having a case grow and be different size each loading.

I would add that using a generous amount of Spray Lube helps with consistent full length resizing.
Ben

 

[338 dude]

Hmmm???

That wiggle room lets the cartridge sit slightly out of alignment with the bore's axis as will be the bullet (assuming it's concentric). Just how much depends on the dimensions of the chamber and the cartridge. Therefore, the only way the bullet is really going to be able to self align perfectly with the axis of the bore is if it's touching or jamming the lands. . . particularly if there's a lot of slop in the chamber. Huh???

I was going to say exactly what you said after reading the previous post and refrained after reading yours I share your opinion there is something called gravity if the chamber is larger than the round would have to settle nearer the bottom off-center

 

[cw308]

338
When you use the Full Length die , are you getting full contact shellholder to die or are you sizing just enough to chamber the case ? After sizing back the case with the F/L die , any change in group size?

Chris

 

[338 dude]

338
When you use the Full Length die , are you getting full contact shellholder to die or are you sizing just enough to chamber the case ? After sizing back the case with the F/L die , any change in group size?

Chris

Only when they give me trouble chambering the round I full-size once I do achieve Cam over it is completely full sized groups may open up slightly not much of a difference though although I do feel better with a tighter fit in the chamber and they are ever so slightly more consistent and accurate when neck sized at least for me also I treat all brass the same if I feel resistance chambering one they all get full sized

 

[cw308]

338
Did you ever look into the Redding Competition Shellholders , they allow you to size the case with a snug fit if that's the way they group better . I full length every time ,every case chambers the same every time . I use to neck size just like you , what starting me thinking to full size was just what you said , when one case chambered alittle harder I resized them all . My neck sized cases weren't the same , think of what's going on , when the cases aren't the same length , when the firing pin hits the shoulder is driven to the shoulder , when we seat it's from base to ogive , with the differences in length makes a difference in our jump , jam or touch ogive settings . Give the Shellholders a look .

Chris

 

[338 dude]

338
Did you ever look into the Redding Competition Shellholders , they allow you to size the case with a snug fit if that's the way they group better . I full length every time ,every case chambers the same every time . I use to neck size just like you , what starting me thinking to full size was just what you said , when one case chambered alittle harder I resized them all . My neck sized cases weren't the same , think of what's going on , when the cases aren't the same length , when the firing pin hits the shoulder is driven to the shoulder , when we seat it's from base to ogive , with the differences in length makes a difference in our jump , jam or touch ogive settings . Give the Shellholders a look .

Chris

You are absolutely correct in what you say in my case I only load for two rifles each one being a different caliber so I only have to worry about one chamber and I only run about .001 headspace my brass only varies about .001 before I full-size and yes I’ve heard of competition shell holders and use them as well and with the limited tests I have run I found this is what works best for me

 

[cw308]

338
Haven't talked to you before , from your posts I new you weren't new to reloading , just like sharing information . Hoping all your groups are one hole , Be Well

Chris

 

[338 dude]

338
Haven't talked to you before , from your posts I new you weren't new to reloading , just like sharing information . Hoping all your groups are one hole , Be Well

Chris

Been a member I would have to check since 2018 sometime not very tech savvy as I am older but I’ve been home suffering for one week then suffering through treatment for two weeks with Rocky Mountain spotted fever a tickborne illness that is sometimes fatal I’m doing better I’m coming back now I lost 32 pounds in 30 days but like I said I’m getting better just so bored from being inside So I have a lot of time to learn how to use this phone and navigate this site nice to hear from you always like making new friends

 

[338 dude]

Thanks guy's for clearing that up , I measured groups from outer edge to outer edge , thanks , it makes my groups smaller . I shoot 308 , once at 100 yards I shot a 3 shot group one hole dead center , I looked at it as a .308 group . Didn't shoot the forth knew I'd screw it up , kept the target . I normally shoot 3 ten shot groups at 200 yards average 1/2" edge to edge .

Just looked back over some older posts had a picture to compare with what you said about measuring groups I measure edge to edge then deduct the diameter of the bullet that leaves you with a center to center measurement This picture taken during load development for my 338 Lapua sorry if I’m too chatty like I said earlier I am bored !