Loose Primer Pockets

[C.E.Smith043]

I recently acquired some Lake City 223 brass and while priming it I noticed that I had about 2 out of 10 that the primer pockets were so loose that it would not hold the primer. That got me to thinking that as Reloaders we can easily resize the body , the neck, and bump the shoulder of a cartridge why doesn't someone make some type of equipment that will resize the primer pocket. Or is that even possible?

 

[savagedasher]

Welcome to the buying of brass that has been over pressured . Larry

 

[C.E.Smith043]

Welcome to the buying of brass that has been over pressured . Larry

I understand that and I'm not arguing that but the primer pocket is not the only part that's been over pressured why is it just because the primer pocket is loose we have to throw the brass away

 

[savagedasher]

I understand that and I'm not arguing that but the primer pocket is not the only part that's been over pressured why is it just because the primer pocket is loose we have to throw the brass away

I don't want 50.000 psi in my face . That. Is what the hold in the case . Larry

 

[Milo 2.0]

There are a couple tools out there for this, one sold by Hart(barrel company), then I think there is a swagger type that pushes material into the pocket, I'll look.
Unless you know or have an inkling you trust someone, buying used brass not really that wise.

 

[STOMP442]

The Hart tool works well and will give your brass a few more firings but .223 brass is cheap, just buy some new ones and be done with it.

 

[JRS]

How many times was that brass fired?

 

[ireload2]

You sound like someone that never bought, reloaded and fired any once fired brass. Anyone that is remotely sophisticated in the reloading process can easily identify cases that have been reloaded. I have many thousands of cases that were bought from indoor rifle ranges for $.05 to $.010 each. I only buy cases that have never been polished and still have the original primers. You can also examine the case mouth. Factory ammo invariably has the case mouth crimped into a cannelure in the bullets. The crimping die and the knurled cannelure all leave distinctive marks that are removed by polishing, trimming and deburring.
As a result I have found a whopping 5 or so blown primer pockets out of maybe 50K to 75K cases. I cannot remember any that were just loose. What I found were primer pockets that were blown at least .010 larger in diameter than a new primer.

One of the blown primers was one case in a lot of about 200 Norma 7X57.
The other blown primers were (2) .25-06 Remington cases and (2) 6mm Rem cases. All of these were Remington factory loads that appeared have been fired in Model 700 Remingtons since they had the characteristic ejector mark.

I tend to view buying once fired brass as the epitome of bargain shopping. Where else can you buy like new brass that has been "proof tested" yet pay 10% to 20% percent of new brass prices. When you have 35 or 40 calibers to reload anything to reduce the investment cost of buying large lots of brass is welcome - and it is safe. one of the best advantages is you buy brass in large lots. So you will find an occasional crushed, split or gouged cases that you do not want to trust. All you have to do is mash them flat with a hammer or pliers or save them as junkers to set your dies with. I once decided to set the trim die for some cases I was forming. My goal was to set the die to exactly give a light one finger drag when closing the rifle bolt. It took me 8 to 10 cases and a few were excessively sized. After sizing that handful of junkers I had the trim die set perfectly and formed the entire lot of 100 cases with no fallout.

There are a couple tools out there for this, one sold by Hart(barrel company), then I think there is a swagger type that pushes material into the pocket, I'll look.
Unless you know or have an inkling you trust someone, buying used brass not really that wise.

 

[C.E.Smith043]

How many times was that brass fired?

Supposedly once

 

[Milo 2.0]

You sound like someone that never bought, reloaded and fired any once fired brass. Anyone that is remotely sophisticated in the reloading process can easily identify cases that have been reloaded.

You nailed that one. Other than 223 brass from Top Brass, I have not. If I walk away from my brass at a range, it is for a reason.

 

[Nature Boy]

Welcome to the buying of brass that has been over pressured . Larry

Or over swaged

 

[JRS]

Supposedly once

If the primer and crimp were in place, you know it is once fired brass. If not… who knows?

 

[Larryh128]

I bought some once fired brass that had been swaged and the whole lot was swaged too large to hold a primer correctly. It went in the trash & I deleted that supplier. And yes it was once fired LC.

 

[alb]

Were these once fired, i.e., still had the staked or swaged primers in place?

Out of many thousands of LC cases, I certainly have rejected many, typically for just being more banged up than I liked, but it'd be somewhat unusual to see a loose pocket. If you received them processed, could be that the processor was just far too aggressive with crimp removal.

 

[T-shooter]

I've bought once (?) fired brass several times. Never again except for pistol. I have had to trash nearly 1/3 or more sometimes for various reasons that made it unuseable. Many times new brass can be had at a good price. For instance Xtreme Ammo had new primed Federal .223 cases for $93 for 500. I bought 1,000. Midsouth has been buying Hornady cases in bulk and breaking the packages down to 100 pcs, Hornady .308 Match cases for $41 per hundred. New .308 Starline brass is also about $40 per 100. I have no experience with it but am going to pick up some to try.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Anyone shooting a .223 with 90s in F-TR will likely tell a much different story than many of the posters here. New Lapua brass IMO is not exactly cheap, and when you're losing almost half the cases to loose primer pockets by the 3rd or 4th firing, the idea of a tool that would tighten them back up suddenly becomes much more interesting. Further, it's not simply the cost of the brass, it's the time and effort that go into prepping and loading cases...time = $$$, even if the brass was picked up at the range for free.

C.E. Smith, you are not alone in thinking this would be a useful tool to have. In fact, there are some tools out there that essentially push some metal from the base of the casehead back into the pocket that will gain a limited number of additional firing. I'm not particularly in favor of a tool that simply pushes a little brass from the edge of the pocket back into it. Just thinking out loud, I believe it should be possible to produce a tool somewhat like an oversized pair of pliers that would actually squeeze back down the pockets. Something along the lines of a shellholder cut in half would be used in each jaw, and be interchangeable for different calibers/cases. The key would be a setup that could generate the force required to squeeze the casehead and primer pocket back down, which is probably far more substantial than the force required to size the relatively thin and unsupported case neck/body regions.

I strongly suspect such a tool could be produced and marketed for a reasonable cost. The real question is whether there would be a sufficient market to make money on it. With a tool cost in the same range as what a reloading die set might cost, it might be possible with proper marketing to convince a sufficient number of reloaders that doubling or tripling their usable brass life would be worth the initial expense and effort.

 

[Liven The Dream]

If you like ? I can set you up with a Guy that makes Dies to tighten them up !
He is bored Tool Maker
Don Shilorock2@msn.com

 

[jsn]

There was an Aussie here several years ago that had made dies like the Lee push through cast bullet sizing dies that sized down his 264 Win Mag cases to save his primer pockets, I think they were .532"/.529"/.526".

There's no reason this couldn't be done for other cartridge sizes, the only issue is would it interfere with the case head bevel the extractor in a push feed system bolt has to slip over.

 

[Webster]

I recently acquired some Lake City 223 brass and while priming it I noticed that I had about 2 out of 10 that the primer pockets were so loose that it would not hold the primer. That got me to thinking that as Reloaders we can easily resize the body , the neck, and bump the shoulder of a cartridge why doesn't someone make some type of equipment that will resize the primer pocket. Or is that even possible?

I wouldn't try to use or recondition cases with loose primers. Cannot you judge the primer pocket fit by how hard it is to press the old primer out. I don't see a need fire pin gauges. The only way to get loose primers is hot charges.

 

[Willie]

I wouldn't try to use or recondition cases with loose primers. Cannot you judge the primer pocket fit by how hard it is to press the old primer out. I don't see a need fire pin gauges. The only way to get loose primers is hot charges.

I agree. I deprime on a stand alone Lee press. Used to just pop 'em out as fast as I could. Then I found that if I deprime with the same motion and pressure, I could notice the cases that had expanding pockets. I would put those cases in a separate tray and after my prep, seat primers. I found a high percentage seated too easily. One more shot and they were toast.

Primer pocket life is fairly consistent with shooting at a consistent loading. Pressure testing higher charges, we all end up with with a few that won't last many firings. By paying close attention to depriming, I feel I can sort out the outliers.