Long range load development at 100 yards.

[rifleman700]

hi Erik or anybody,
could you please scan your eyes over this and let me know what you think please.
groups shot over 100yds,open sights ,target rifle. thank you .paul

Do you have any chrono numbers to go with this?

 

[Budget]

Do you have any chrono numbers to go with this?

Hi sorry for the late reply.
No I don't any more as no body other than yourself has bothered to reply.
If I remember it was doing 3015 approx. with low Es of around 8-10.
I shoot what you call Palma shooting and we have a window of about 2970-3020 fps but I am always looking for ways to improve grouping capibilities.
Thank you for taking the time to reply
Paul

 

[264WM70]

I just started load development on my 6.5x47 Lapua. Starting with 130 grain VLD Target, 205M primer, Reloader 16, 0.010 jump. Powder charge starts at 39.6 and goes to 41.4 by .2 grains. Here are my target pictures at 100 yards. The chart is difficult to read but I tracked group size, average drop from aim point, max and min drop, and drop spread.

RL 16 Group Size Drop Ave Max Min Drop Spread
39.6 0.175 1.574 1.701 1.483 0.218
39.8 0.519 1.584 1.715 1.391 0.324
40.0 0.213 1.489 1.685 1.254 0.431
40.2 0.583 1.441 1.817 1.017 0.801
40.4 0.195 1.518 1.639 1.417 0.222
40.6 0.265 1.465 1.629 1.303 0.326
40.8 0.124 1.357 1.579 1.177 0.402
41.0 0.415 1.352 1.579 1.099 0.480
41.2 0.251 1.374 1.573 1.205 0.368
41.4 0.231 1.225 1.384 0.971 0.414

 

[264WM70]

41.4 grains of Reloader 16 is near the max case volume of the 6.5x47 Lapua without long drop tube. I don't have a chronograph at this time to check velocity, SD, or ED. Looks to me like two nodes with a higher node just beginning to develop. Which one should I begin seating depth with?

 

[MOShooter]

41.4 grains of Reloader 16 is near the max case volume of the 6.5x47 Lapua without long drop tube. I don't have a chronograph at this time to check velocity, SD, or ED. Looks to me like two nodes with a higher node just beginning to develop. Which one should I begin seating depth with?

I'll be testing this powder soon.

 

[264WM70]

I am thinking about working seating depth with the 40.4 grain node or the 39.6 grain node. They are close on vertical spread

 

[94ranger]

This has been very helpful. I have a few questions and have tried to provide a lot of pictures to help.

I've followed the Dan Newberry OCW method and after reading here, I am wondering if I should start over w/ the charge test. I think I found a node but would like opinions. I don't complete - just shoot steel.

Gun is a DTA SRS .308, 22" 1:11 factory barrel, fired @ 100 yards. My components are:
Hornady 178gr BTHP, seated .010" off the lands for initial testing
Virgin Lapua brass (run over PMA expander mandrel and has .001" on neck tension)
Wolf LR primer
IMR 4895

I started the OCW at .010 off the lands. Based on this target of 41.4, 41.7, and 42.0, I thought 41.7gr or 42.0 was a node.

My shooting technique was poor. I changed how I gripped the rifle and re-shot 41.4 - 42.0 with no other changes:

42.0 was so tight that I decided to quickly do a "stability test" with a group of 41.7, 42.0, and 42.3. POI appeared to be the same:

However, I thought I saw some very faint cratering with 42.0. Ignore the circular scrape on the heads - this was caused by a burr on the ejector and even very low charges had this. I've since removed the burr and the problem is gone. (top to bottom: 41.7, 42.0, 42.3gr):

View 2:

View 3:

Because of this, I opted to 41.7gr. I did a depth test, but moved back in .010 increments which is probably way too much. Pic of depth test below (Left to right: .020" off lands, .030", .040" not shown but it was not impressive at all):

I decided to go with .020". I loaded and fired 10 over a Shooting Chrony. The group was about .75". The ES, however, didn't look that good:
41.7gr, .020" off the lands:
2555
2567
2576
2560
2561
2565
2576
2581
2577
2565
Avg: 2568 fps
StdDev: 8.66 fps
ES: 25.06 fps

For kicks, I shot 3 rounds of this load at 600 yards and they did a 3.5" group:

My questions for the experts

• Based on all of this, would it be wise to stick with the 41.7gr, load or should I start over with Erik's method and do another charge test in 0.5gr increments instead of 0.3gr, then depth test in .005" increments, etc? Not opposed to doing this - just wondering if I know enough already.
• I plugged in the velocity numbers into Applied Ballistics. It said 4.6MIL for 600 yards, but my hits were high. Could this be a sign of goofy Chrony numbers?
• Would it be best to settle on this load until I have fire-formed all brass, then do the test again?
• Do those primers look flat or fine?

THANK YOU!

 

[myownman]

Okay guys, what's your thoughts on this one? My first and second target shows the 37.0 looks promising, but today I ran them across the magnetospeed and found that the numbers line out around the 37.5gr. The numbers with the 37.0gr look good by themselves also. It was a little cooler today. I did notice I was running a little slower with the same charges. Sorry for the bad pic!

6.5X47
26"
140 HYBRIDS
VARGET
CCI 450

36.8gr
2765
2770
2757
2758
2755 AVG= 2761 SD 6.2 ES 15

37.0gr
2780
2778
2777
2775
2775 AVG=2777 SD 2.0 ES 5

37.2gr
2792
2779
2786
2792
2782 AVG=2786 SD 5.8 ES 13

37.4gr
2813
2808
2798
2808
2803 AVG=2806 SD 5.6 ES 15

37.6gr
2811
2809
2810
2816
2806 AVG=2810 SD 3.6 ES 10

37.8gr
2828
2826
2844 AVG=2832 ONLY SHOT 3

 

[USMCDOC]

Okay guys, what's your thoughts on this one? My first and second target shows the 37.0 looks promising, but today I ran them across the magnetospeed and found that the numbers line out around the 37.5gr. The numbers with the 37.0gr look good by themselves also. It was a little cooler today. I did notice I was running a little slower with the same charges. Sorry for the bad pic!

6.5X47
26"
140 HYBRIDS
VARGET
CCI 450

36.8gr
2765
2770
2757
2758
2755 AVG= 2761 SD 6.2 ES 15

37.0gr
2780
2778
2777
2775
2775 AVG=2777 SD 2.0 ES 5

37.2gr
2792
2779
2786
2792
2782 AVG=2786 SD 5.8 ES 13

37.4gr
2813
2808
2798
2808
2803 AVG=2806 SD 5.6 ES 15

37.6gr
2811
2809
2810
2816
2806 AVG=2810 SD 3.6 ES 10

37.8gr
2828
2826
2844 AVG=2832 ONLY SHOT 3

i like the 37.7 gr load

 

[myownman]

I do to, but didn't know if I was getting on the hot side things. I haven't noticed any pressure signs yet. Thanks!

 

[Martin52]

Test conducted over 100 yds with my target rifle. Grunig and elmiger 308.
8208 powder. Lapua Palma cases.cci 450 magnum primers.33inch Krieger 1/12.
Thanks again
Paul

Hi Paul,

You might have 2 nodes ? Might be worth doing further load development between 43.5-43.8. Also at 44.4.

Are you using a tight bore or standard .300 x .308 and what projectile ?

Just noticed the age of your original post, you might have worked out the load since then ?

Martin.

 

[Linko]

Hi, I have followed this thread awhile and here is my first attempt at load development. Hope this test will yield some direction for me to follow. This is 100 yds with my Savage Model 10 6 BR. the load is Lapua, Varget, Berger 105 Hybrid. I measured the round with this bullet to be 1.6650 touching the lands. I loaded these to 1.6640

Appreciate your comments.

 

[savageshooter86]

View attachment 995250 Hi, I have followed this thread awhile and here is my first attempt at load development. Hope this test will yield some direction for me to follow. This is 100 yds with my Savage Model 10 6 BR. the load is Lapua, Varget, Berger 105 Hybrid. I measured the round with this bullet to be 1.6650 touching the lands. I loaded these to 1.6640

Appreciate your comments.

29.4gr and play with seating depth

 

[Brians356]

29.4gr and play with seating depth

I tend to agree, it would hard to argue otherwise absent velocity figures. "Linko", did you clock these groups?

(As an aside, I recall this thread reaching 100 pages, and Erik commenting on that. Now it's only 95 pages. ???)
-

 

[Linko]

I tend to agree, it would hard to argue otherwise absent velocity figures. "Linko", did you clock these groups?

(As an aside, I recall this thread reaching 100 pages, and Erik commenting on that. Now it's only 95 pages. ???)
-

(I do not have a cronograph. Suggested to the range to buy a Labradar to rent)

Thanks for the suggestion. Being new I was going to play with between 28.0 & 28.2 & 28.8 & 29.0. now that you both identify 29.4 I think I see why. Thank you very very much, I have been trying this for weeks.
I will load some 29.4 tonight for the weekend. To start I should just try seating depth variations with this one powder level, correct. Maybe a few with BR4 primers instead of the CCI 450's also?

 

[savageshooter86]

(I do not have a cronograph. Suggested to the range to buy a Labradar to rent)

Thanks for the suggestion. Being new I was going to play with between 28.0 & 28.2 & 28.8 & 29.0. now that you both identify 29.4 I think I see why. Thank you very very much, I have been trying this for weeks.
I will load some 29.4 tonight for the weekend. To start I should just try seating depth variations with this one powder level, correct. Maybe a few with BR4 primers instead of the CCI 450's also?

For now keep primers the same. Go seating depth variations of 0.003". you'll see pretty quick the groups tighten up

 

[Brians356]

To start I should just try seating depth variations with this one powder level, correct. Maybe a few with BR4 primers instead of the CCI 450's also?

Never change more than one thing at a time. Seating depth either side of 29.4 grs.
-

 

[wedgy]

On the 28.0 and 28.2 targets can the one round one round low and right in each be shooter induced ?
On second thought I guess it all can be shooter induced but can somebody comment on that one low right in each group ?
Otherwise can somebody tell me why not that group, that flier in each seems odd to me, as does the split group in 29.6
As to the Labradar, on load development for a .223 I had the powder charge worked out and was playing with 5 different seating depths. They all printed under than 1.5" 5 shots at 300 yards but one had an ES of 9 fps while the other 4 were 20-30 fps. That is why I like that unit.

 

[Linko]

On the 28.0 and 28.2 targets can the one round one round low and right in each be shooter induced ?
On second thought I guess it all can be shooter induced but can somebody comment on that one low right in each group ?
Otherwise can somebody tell me why not that group, that flier in each seems odd to me, as does the split group in 29.6
As to the Labradar, on load development for a .223 I had the powder charge worked out and was playing with 5 different seating depths. They all printed under than 1.5" 5 shots at 300 yards but one had an ES of 9 fps while the other 4 were 20-30 fps. That is why I like that unit.

I can provide this input regarding 28.0 and 28.2 Being generally a new shooter I have not acheived true consistancy in my shooting form, so the low round in each 5 shot group could easily be me. those 2 groups were almost 4 rounds touching each other except for the single low round in each. should I give that area a second try?

 

[/VH]

Linko,

You should probably do whatever makes you happy however, you stated that you have been following this thread for a while. If it is your intent to develop your load by the method described in this thread, by the OP, then savageshooter86's advice to you is sound, in that regard.