Long Range Caliber for AR Platform

[rsmithsr50]

Well I have seen the All Guard Team Shoot some Big Scores with there AR 10's in .308.
They shoot 175 Bergers ?? and 20"Barrels ?

What would a 26" Barrel and move the Gas System 2" forward do ?

well I love 308
BUT
in mil sniper rifles it is only considered an 800 yard round( I am assuming a 12x18 target or so). I have shot well at 600, but never at 1000. simply put there are better combinations for 1000.
(my guess is all guard is shooting at a 20" ten ring..way too big)

 

[Old Navy]

Good Morning!

My charts have been set for 400' ASL and about 80 degrees F because that's where I was shooting and it rarely went below 80 degrees except maybe for an hour or two early in the morning.
Thanks so much for the reply. No all you have to do is convince the


Well Frank, sorry to tell you but you are wrong. I don't care what age you are or how long you've been shooting or reloading. The fact is that you're using the wrong term by definition alone. Your attitude about the acceptance of the casual misuse of the English language is contributing to the poor communication habits of our fellow shooters. So no matter what your opinion is, how old you are or how much you reload, the definitions of these two terms are finite not just some casual misuse.

Have a great day! It's beautiful here.

Good Morning!

My charts have been set for 400' ASL and about 80 degrees F because that's where I was shooting and it rarely went below 80 degrees except maybe for an hour or two early in the morning.



Well Frank, sorry to tell you but you are wrong. I don't care what age you are or how long you've been shooting or reloading. The fact is that you're using the wrong term by definition alone. Your attitude about the acceptance of the casual misuse of the English language is contributing to the poor communication habits of our fellow shooters. So no matter what your opinion is, how old you are or how much you reload, the definitions of these two terms are finite not just some casual misuse.

Have a great day! It's beautiful here.

 

[Old Navy]

Good Morning!

My charts have been set for 400' ASL and about 80 degrees F because that's where I was shooting and it rarely went below 80 degrees except maybe for an hour or two early in the morning.
You have a great day to!



Well Frank, sorry to tell you but you are wrong. I don't care what age you are or how long you've been shooting or reloading. The fact is that you're using the wrong term by definition alone. Your attitude about the acceptance of the casual misuse of the English language is contributing to the poor communication habits of our fellow shooters. So no matter what your opinion is, how old you are or how much you reload, the definitions of these two terms are finite not just some casual misuse.

Have a great day! It's beautiful here.

 

[Mark M.]

I have been researching the Valkyrie, and I see a lot of people struggling re: accuracy. Now this is all Internet research, so I don't know any of these people personally. Hence, I don't know what their level of - or lack of - experience truly is. I see what appear to be a rather large number of people who completely drink the kool-aid and then wonder why THEY can't shoot sub-1/2MOA groups at any distance, when they buy the exact same stuff that the gun-rag writer used. Okay, you can't buy your way to mastery, got it.

Someone else will reply that they've been shooting X bullet over XX.X grains of whatever powder for ages, and they haven't had any problems. Pictures of groups??? Very occasionally. I guess a lot of folks must measure groups differently than I do, is all I'm going to say on that.

It also seems like a lot of people assume that they can load ammo to someone else's specs (CBTO length, especially), and get identical results. Many of them can't even get the bolt to close on their handloaded ammo. A lot of inexperienced reloaders and shooters jumping on the bandwagon (and being disappointed), is my perception.

Also, the 1300-yard claims pertaining to this cartridge remaining supersonic were obtained using what amounts to a stacked deck. The testing was performed at around 5,000 feet above sea level (or possibly higher), so you may or may not be able to duplicate them where you live.

Sounds depressing

 

[Liven The Dream]

well I love 308
BUT
in mil sniper rifles it is only considered an 800 yard round( I am assuming a 12x18 target or so). I have shot well at 600, but never at 1000. simply put there are better combinations for 1000.
(my guess is all guard is shooting at a 20" ten ring..way too big)

I Know your 10 Ring at 1000 is Not Correct ?
The Best Rifle in the Hands of a Want to be is nothing . Is the Indian not the Arrow.

 

[rsmithsr50]

they did not say what target. the common mil 1000 yd target is 20" 10 ring and a 10" x ring.
when someone posts DETAILS, then we can discuss it.
no details when I made my comment.

I Know your 10 Ring at 1000 is Not Correct ?
The Best Rifle in the Hands of a Want to be is nothing . Is the Indian not the Arrow.

 

[Travis Roberts]

Thread going over on SH about 6mm ARC. Basically a Hornady is taking a run at the 6mmAR wildcat with a factory offering. If you’re willing to wait I think it’ll be worth the time.

80 grain ELDs in a 224V has shown some great potential for a buddy of mine. If reloading is in your arsenal it would be a great option IMHO.

 

[Bill Norris]

Thread going over on SH about 6mm ARC. Basically a Hornady is taking a run at the 6mmAR wildcat with a factory offering. If you’re willing to wait I think it’ll be worth the time.

80 grain ELDs in a 224V has shown some great potential for a buddy of mine. If reloading is in your arsenal it would be a great option IMHO.

I owned one of Robert Whitley's 6mmAR some 12 maybe 15 years back. It was a great shooting rifle. It grouped very good at 100 and 200 yds. and I could relative easy take out pop bottles and milk jugs at 500 and 600 yds. with Nosler BT s. Dont know why I sold it and would consider having another one but I dont seem to get an answer when I call.

 

[Downhill]

Plus one on the 6mm AR.

 

[msalm]

Unfortunately I have limited use of my right hand (shoulder) which excludes bolt action as I am right handed. Pulling trigger, I can do; working the bolt action is simply out of question.

There are benchrest rifle actions made that would suite you with a left side bolt. LBLPRE (Left bolt, left port, right eject)… You would load from the left, work the bolt from the left and the round would eject to the right. Or you could just go with any number of combinations that might fit your operating restrictions the best. I'd call up one of the action manufacturers and discuss it with them. A precision bolt rifle would likely give you more enjoyment (satisfaction) when shooting targets at a distance. This is just IMO of course.

 

[Kurz]

There are benchrest rifle actions made that would suite you with a left side bolt. LBLPRE (Left bolt, left port, right eject)… You would load from the left, work the bolt from the left and the round would eject to the right. Or you could just go with any number of combinations that might fit your operating restrictions the best. I'd call up one of the action manufacturers and discuss it with them. A precision bolt rifle would likely give you more enjoyment (satisfaction) when shooting targets at a distance. This is just IMO of course.

Left arm is worse than the right.

Reading is fundamental, the OP makes this statement on the second page.

 

[msalm]

Well sorry about that! I scanned the whole thing and completely missed that. For specialty calibers I’ve built 22 and 6mm Grendel’s and would go that route then as you’d have more room for those longer bullets. I’d also look at the specialty bolts/barrel extension systems done by AR15performance.com. He has a much stronger bolt head design that would handle the higher bolt thrust of the larger case head for the AR15 platform. I have one each of his 22 and 6mm AR barrel/bolt combos and they are good stuff.

 

[rsmithsr50]

the magazine LENGTH still limits what can be done in an ar from a mag.

 

[mac86951]

the magazine LENGTH still limits what can be fone in an ar from a mag.

Agreed; but can an AR large or small frame be set up to semi-automatically cycle and reach 1000y? Yes. I think the debate that is spinning up is; "...reach 1000y accurately." That question will need some input from the OP. Yes there are magazine restrictions; but it would equally be poor form for us to make recommendations outside the ops requirements.

-Mac

 

[Kurz]

That question will need some input from the OP. Yes there are magazine restrictions; but it would equally be poor form for us to make recommendations outside the ops requirements.

I asked this near the front of the first page:

"Next is a question about whether you intend to shoot from a magazine or single shot. Since you intentionally ask about the AR platforms, we might think that magazine feeding is a priority. However, in some competitions the AR15 is managed in a single shot configuration rather than firing from the magazine. The single shot allows for the much longer, higher BC bullets to be seated out creating more case space for powder and potentially more velocity. This is what I do when shooting the .223 Rem. cartridge at 1,000 yards.

But, here's reality. If you want both magazine feeding and minimum 1,000 yard supersonic characteristics, you should consider the 6.5 Creedmoor in the larger platform. The load I shoot is the 130 grain VLD loaded to magazine length (2.800") which is supersonic to 1,800 yards. The Grendel nor the Valkyrie will get close. The drawback is the weight increase between the 2 platforms but if target shooting is the main intent then a slight increase in weight is beneficial as opposed to detrimental.

However, if the intent is magazine feed and the lighter weight AR15 platform then I suggest the Valkyrie over the Grendel. The Valkyrie will push the 80 grain VLDs fast enough to make the 1,300 yard supersonic point WHEN you use the 6-1/2" twist barrel. The standard Federal suggestion of 1:7" contributes to the loss of accuracy so be sure of the twist rate. The downside is that if you later decide to try to shoot some of the lighter bullets, that performance will most likely suffer. This is not a problem with the 6.5 Creedmoor.

Enjoy!"

I have added the red and bold for emphasis since it's easy to skim over some salient points buried in mid-paragraph. It's not that I'm a huge fan of the Valkyrie but I got involved in solving a problem for another shooter trying to resolve some accuracy potential from this cartridge in an AR15 platform. Long to short, his barrel was a 1:7" twist and he needed the 1:6-1/2" twist to get the accuracy from the cartridge and bullet combination he wanted to use. I made a new barrel with the appropriate twist, shot some excellent groups and returned the rifle.

As an alternative, I have used a .22 Creedmoor with the Berger 90 gr. VLD LRBT bullet in the AR10 platform under magazine length with excellent results. My COAL was 2.700" and the reamer was ground per a dummy round. This eliminates the problem of manipulating the bolt for single shot mode in a semi-auto rifle. It's a very mild cartridge/bullet combination so it should be suitable for many to shoot easily and comfortably.

 

[rsmithsr50]

maybe since you insist on pushing the 224valkyrie, you can show us some 1000 yard targets with competitive results. shot from an ar 15.
I am a member of the 224valkyrie form. we had to split shooting to bolt action and ar forums to get real results that was not skewed by bolt guns.
still no good numbers from ar's.

I asked this near the front of the first page:

"Next is a question about whether you intend to shoot from a magazine or single shot. Since you intentionally ask about the AR platforms, we might think that magazine feeding is a priority. However, in some competitions the AR15 is managed in a single shot configuration rather than firing from the magazine. The single shot allows for the much longer, higher BC bullets to be seated out creating more case space for powder and potentially more velocity. This is what I do when shooting the .223 Rem. cartridge at 1,000 yards.

But, here's reality. If you want both magazine feeding and minimum 1,000 yard supersonic characteristics, you should consider the 6.5 Creedmoor in the larger platform. The load I shoot is the 130 grain VLD loaded to magazine length (2.800") which is supersonic to 1,800 yards. The Grendel nor the Valkyrie will get close. The drawback is the weight increase between the 2 platforms but if target shooting is the main intent then a slight increase in weight is beneficial as opposed to detrimental.

However, if the intent is magazine feed and the lighter weight AR15 platform then I suggest the Valkyrie over the Grendel. The Valkyrie will push the 80 grain VLDs fast enough to make the 1,300 yard supersonic point WHEN you use the 6-1/2" twist barrel. The standard Federal suggestion of 1:7" contributes to the loss of accuracy so be sure of the twist rate. The downside is that if you later decide to try to shoot some of the lighter bullets, that performance will most likely suffer. This is not a problem with the 6.5 Creedmoor.

Enjoy!"

I have added the red and bold for emphasis since it's easy to skim over some salient points buried in mid-paragraph. It's not that I'm a huge fan of the Valkyrie but I got involved in solving a problem for another shooter trying to resolve some accuracy potential from this cartridge in an AR15 platform. Long to short, his barrel was a 1:7" twist and he needed the 1:6-1/2" twist to get the accuracy from the cartridge and bullet combination he wanted to use. I made a new barrel with the appropriate twist, shot some excellent groups and returned the rifle.

As an alternative, I have used a .22 Creedmoor with the Berger 90 gr. VLD LRBT bullet in the AR10 platform under magazine length with excellent results. My COAL was 2.700" and the reamer was ground per a dummy round. This eliminates the problem of manipulating the bolt for single shot mode in a semi-auto rifle. It's a very mild cartridge/bullet combination so it should be suitable for many to shoot easily and comfortably.

 

[Texas10]

Hello All;

I have been doing a lot of reading on the net about choosing the right caliber with a lot of contradictions and... I am more confused now.

I am planning to build a long range precision AR rifle which will be solely used for targets and not hunting; I gave up hunting a long time ago. I would rather stay with the smaller frame AR15 but that is not a deal breaker. I know there are DPMS 308 Gen II which are smaller frame and POF Revolution AR10 which is the same size as AR15 (I don't like it since it is proprietary).

lots of people are recommending 6.5 Creedmoor which fit AR10. Is there any other caliber that would shoot flat, wind resistant... up to 1000m?

Thanks for any information.

I am just now reading about the 6mmARC, new from Hornaday. Made for AR15 chassis, better ballistics than a 6.5 Grendel. Factory loaded ammo available, or about to be available.

As a bolt rifle shooter, I wouldn't be interested as there are plenty of 6mm cartridges available for my use however, this may fulfill your requirements. I see Proof has barrels available, and other barrel makers have signed on, so more choices coming soon?

 

[SPQR70AD]

If staying with the large frame AR-10 platform I'd probably go with the Rem .260 for 1000 yds. but 6.5 would not be my first choice. I simply don't see any gains by going with the highly praised 6.5 C M. From all the load data I have seen it's not in the books. Just my .02 cents.

police will be paying you a visit for your blasphemy

 

[ebb]

Yea and the ones that will respond will be under 30 and believe every thing they see on the world wide web.

 

[Steve Donlon]

I've shot a few times with steve123, a member here , at 1000 yards he and his 6mm something that could put 6 rounds down range before I could shoot two with my 30-06. It was very easy to take advantage of a calm break in the wind and stay on target with the 6mm. Now that the 6mm ARC is coming out, It may not be the best at 1000 yards but it sure would be fun to take advantage of all the attributes of the 6mm cartridge with factory dies, brass and rifles soon to be available in a ar 15 platform. I think I'm becoming a believer.