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Long Range Caliber for AR Platform

Ben64

Hello All;

I have been doing a lot of reading on the net about choosing the right caliber with a lot of contradictions and... I am more confused now.

I am planning to build a long range precision AR rifle which will be solely used for targets and not hunting; I gave up hunting a long time ago. I would rather stay with the smaller frame AR15 but that is not a deal breaker. I know there are DPMS 308 Gen II which are smaller frame and POF Revolution AR10 which is the same size as AR15 (I don't like it since it is proprietary).

lots of people are recommending 6.5 Creedmoor which fit AR10. Is there any other caliber that would shoot flat, wind resistant... up to 1000m?

Thanks for any information.
 
Ben64 said:
Hello All;

I have been doing a lot of reading on the net about choosing the right caliber with a lot of contradictions and... I am more confused now.

I am planning to build a long range precision AR rifle which will be solely used for targets and not hunting; I gave up hunting a long time ago. I would rather stay with the smaller frame AR15 but that is not a deal breaker. I know there are DPMS 308 Gen II which are smaller frame and POF Revolution AR10 which is the same size as AR15 (I don't like it since it is proprietary).

lots of people are recommending 6.5 Creedmoor which fit AR10. Is there any other caliber that would shoot flat, wind resistant... up to 1000m?

Thanks for any information.
Click to expand...
1000 YDS in an AR Platform for target shooting only would not be my first choice. Accurate yes, but nothing like what can be done with a bolt gun.
If staying with the AR15, the Grendel or the Valkyrie would both be good options. I consider both rounds to be compromised in a gas operated system.
In AR10, there are too many options to even make a reasonable suggestion, and again all will be less than they would be in a good bolt action.
My question is, why not a bolt gun if you are only interested in target?
If you just want to plink with it as well, then an AR15 and lots of different uppers to suit your needs.
 
Rset said:
1000 YDS in an AR Platform for target shooting only would not be my first choice. Accurate yes, but nothing like what can be done with a bolt gun.
If staying with the AR15, the Grendel or the Valkyrie would both be good options. I consider both rounds to be compromised in a gas operated system.
In AR10, there are too many options to even make a reasonable suggestion, and again all will be less than they would be in a good bolt action.
My question is, why not a bolt gun if you are only interested in target?
If you just want to plink with it as well, then an AR15 and lots of different uppers to suit your needs.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I have limited use of my right hand (shoulder) which excludes bolt action as I am right handed. Pulling trigger, I can do; working the bolt action is simply out of question.
 
Ben64 said:
Is there any other caliber that would shoot flat, wind resistant... up to 1000m?
Click to expand...

I think it's important to clarify some terminology.

You're asking about a cartridge not a caliber. Caliber references the diameter of the bore while cartridge specifies the case and the bullet diameter.

Next is a question about whether you intend to shoot from a magazine or single shot. Since you intentionally ask about the AR platforms, we might think that magazine feeding is a priority. However, in some competitions the AR15 is managed in a single shot configuration rather than firing from the magazine. The single shot allows for the much longer, higher BC bullets to be seated out creating more case space for powder and potentially more velocity. This is what I do when shooting the .223 Rem. cartridge at 1,000 yards.

But, here's reality. If you want both magazine feeding and minimum 1,000 yard supersonic characteristics, you should consider the 6.5 Creedmoor in the larger platform. The load I shoot is the 130 grain VLD loaded to magazine length (2.800") which is supersonic to 1,800 yards. The Grendel nor the Valkyrie will get close. The drawback is the weight increase between the 2 platforms but if target shooting is the main intent then a slight increase in weight is beneficial as opposed to detrimental.

However, if the intent is magazine feed and the lighter weight AR15 platform then I suggest the Valkyrie over the Grendel. The Valkyrie will push the 80 grain VLDs fast enough to make the 1,300 yard supersonic point WHEN you use the 6-1/2" twist barrel. The standard Federal suggestion of 1:7" contributes to the loss of accuracy so be sure of the twist rate. The downside is that if you later decide to try to shoot some of the lighter bullets, that performance will most likely suffer. This is not a problem with the 6.5 Creedmoor.

Enjoy!
 
I shoot em all.

For 1000 yards from a magazine, I prefer the 6.5x47 AR-10. I have two.

The -47 seems to have less feeding and ejection issues than the other cartridges. All large centerfire cartridges will have primer problems and be hard on brass in AR-10/LR-308, unless mitigated.

However there are better options for ammo for the Creed, if you dont reload.

Both are hand built by me.

So, its not a deal where you can just throw it together and go.
 
243 wssm in a small frame AR. 1000 yards easy with sierra 95gr match bullets. Heavier bullets have better BC but will have difficulty fitting within mag length constraints.
 
If staying with the large frame AR-10 platform I'd probably go with the Rem .260 for 1000 yds. but 6.5 would not be my first choice. I simply don't see any gains by going with the highly praised 6.5 C M. From all the load data I have seen it's not in the books. Just my .02 cents.
 
Last edited:
I have been researching the Valkyrie, and I see a lot of people struggling re: accuracy. Now this is all Internet research, so I don't know any of these people personally. Hence, I don't know what their level of - or lack of - experience truly is. I see what appear to be a rather large number of people who completely drink the kool-aid and then wonder why THEY can't shoot sub-1/2MOA groups at any distance, when they buy the exact same stuff that the gun-rag writer used. Okay, you can't buy your way to mastery, got it.

Someone else will reply that they've been shooting X bullet over XX.X grains of whatever powder for ages, and they haven't had any problems. Pictures of groups??? Very occasionally. I guess a lot of folks must measure groups differently than I do, is all I'm going to say on that.

It also seems like a lot of people assume that they can load ammo to someone else's specs (CBTO length, especially), and get identical results. Many of them can't even get the bolt to close on their handloaded ammo. A lot of inexperienced reloaders and shooters jumping on the bandwagon (and being disappointed), is my perception.

Also, the 1300-yard claims pertaining to this cartridge remaining supersonic were obtained using what amounts to a stacked deck. The testing was performed at around 5,000 feet above sea level (or possibly higher), so you may or may not be able to duplicate them where you live.
 
Kurz said:
I think it's important to clarify some terminology.

You're asking about a cartridge not a caliber. Caliber references the diameter of the bore while cartridge specifies the case and the bullet diameter.

Next is a question about whether you intend to shoot from a magazine or single shot. Since you intentionally ask about the AR platforms, we might think that magazine feeding is a priority. However, in some competitions the AR15 is managed in a single shot configuration rather than firing from the magazine. The single shot allows for the much longer, higher BC bullets to be seated out creating more case space for powder and potentially more velocity. This is what I do when shooting the .223 Rem. cartridge at 1,000 yards.

But, here's reality. If you want both magazine feeding and minimum 1,000 yard supersonic characteristics, you should consider the 6.5 Creedmoor in the larger platform. The load I shoot is the 130 grain VLD loaded to magazine length (2.800") which is supersonic to 1,800 yards. The Grendel nor the Valkyrie will get close. The drawback is the weight increase between the 2 platforms but if target shooting is the main intent then a slight increase in weight is beneficial as opposed to detrimental.

However, if the intent is magazine feed and the lighter weight AR15 platform then I suggest the Valkyrie over the Grendel. The Valkyrie will push the 80 grain VLDs fast enough to make the 1,300 yard supersonic point WHEN you use the 6-1/2" twist barrel. The standard Federal suggestion of 1:7" contributes to the loss of accuracy so be sure of the twist rate. The downside is that if you later decide to try to shoot some of the lighter bullets, that performance will most likely suffer. This is not a problem with the 6.5 Creedmoor.

Enjoy!
Click to expand...


Thank You for bringing this up. Seriously, this is my biggest pet peeve on ALL shooting forums. People using CALIBER when they really mean CARTRIDGE.
 
Built several Valks for customers, and they shot pretty well when I tested them at 100 yards. In 500m steel plate matches they havent won yet. The Grendel's and 223s seem to have a leg up for now.

I tried the 260 Rem very early on in a DPMS LR308 gun. Douglas barrel I think. Gun ran great, but accuracy was not good. I TRIED a hundred different loads, and finally found the 130 Accubond bullet to work well. It was 1/2 MOA deal with that bullet.

Probably shot 10-12 6.5 Creeds in AR over the last couple years using various factory ammo. Most are 1MOA guns. Handloads are key here if you want better groups. But most guys dont want the hassle of load development.

Shot the 6.5 Grendel at 1000 and the 6mm AR out to 1400. This is a real stretch for both of those cartridges - in my opinion.

So your best AR options are:
.308 Win
.243 Win
6.5 Creed
.260 Rem
6.5x47 Lapua

If I was a novice, Id probably look at .243 or 6.5 Creed.
 
rsmithsr50 said:
lol all hype no facts/data.
just ask the guys that have tried to compete with the gun rag hype...NO DEAL
Click to expand...


Hey, "Mr know it all", the OP asked for a small frame AR Platform rifle for 1000 yard target shooting. I gave him a suggestion. I DIDN't say it was the most accurate round there is. Some people are having pretty decent accuracy using the 224 V cartridge.

I have been reading quite a few of your posts, & its obvious that you know everything. So Congrats, you are officialy on my ignore list.
 
SG4247 said:
Built several Valks for customers, and they shot pretty well when I tested them at 100 yards. In 500m steel plate matches they havent won yet. The Grendel's and 223s seem to have a leg up for now.

I tried the 260 Rem very early on in a DPMS LR308 gun. Douglas barrel I think. Gun ran great, but accuracy was not good. I TRIED a hundred different loads, and finally found the 130 Accubond bullet to work well. It was 1/2 MOA deal with that bullet.

Probably shot 10-12 6.5 Creeds in AR over the last couple years using various factory ammo. Most are 1MOA guns. Handloads are key here if you want better groups. But most guys dont want the hassle of load development.

Shot the 6.5 Grendel at 1000 and the 6mm AR out to 1400. This is a real stretch for both of those cartridges - in my opinion.

So your best AR options are:
.308 Win
.243 Win
6.5 Creed
.260 Rem
6.5x47 Lapua

If I was a novice, Id probably look at .243 or 6.5 Creed.
Click to expand...


Thank you for the great guide. I do have a lot experience with .308 from my army years. I like 6mm even if it shortens the barrel life. I may have to forget bout AR15 and go with AR10 simply to have a wider range of choices.
 
I am working on 2 AR's with 1000 yards in mind. Both are 1/2 M.O.A. and should be comfortably supersonic to 1k.
The first is a 24" .223 Rem pushing the Berger 85.5 grain hybrid @ 2780 fps using Varget.
The second is a 28" 6mm Grendel/AR/ARC/LBC/Predator running the 107 grain SMK@ 2760 fps with Reloder 17.
I know I would be better off with my 260 or 30-06 bolt guns, but these are interesting.
My home range is limited to 400 yards. I'm waiting for this virus to get sorted out so the longer ranges open up.
 
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