Lets talk about antiquated/out of style reloading practices

[JFrank]

Beam scales were the rage, then a Gem pro, now it’s FX120 or a tuned beam scale

 

[hogpatrol]

Does anyone still CC cases anymore? I did it back in my Jurassic early days of reloading then I figured the groundhogs wouldn't know the difference.

 

[group therapy]

I chamfer too; I thought it was like a basic principal of reloading. Franklin was talking about never under any circumstance chamfering the inside of the case mouth; even after trimming a case.

The concentricity thing, I've never been able to shoot the difference personally, but don't have strong feelings either way. I prefer straighter ammo to crooked ammo.

@ Dean- That 'mesh-sure' comment made me spit water out. I still had it going in the background and he was talking about mesh-sure'ing as I read it. To be clear, I use the F.Guffey method.

mr guffey is PROUD to call you student and graduate. proud papa I'm sure. the master is infallible

 

[Clancy]

Neck sizing (now seems ridiculous to me)

case lube pads

annealing with a torch and water

And for me personally, seating on a single stage press. Now that I have an arbor, I’ll never go back.

 

[dannyjbiggs]

Last century, I purchased a NECO gauge, and "indexed" to defeat the inside banana-case effect for long range. I also sold it last century, too. I didn't need it for concentricity measurements. Frank Barnes had given me a very good one years before to role my "white box" M852. Still have it though...became the best paper weight I've ever had at turn of the century.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Reloading has changed for the better. My first pistol loading was 38 spec. On a single stage Lyman. Hours in the shed loading for ISSF Centrefire. Eventually a Lee turret press with micro disc, for 32 S&W. Scores got better when investing in a Dillon 550. Probably as I loaded more and shot more.

I still have the Dillon. Makes Lapua Palma 308's and ADI 223's straight again. The Redding dies help. The dial gauge, decent scales, match primers, wet case cleaner, annealer, mandrel expander and a few years learning by experience dont hurt either.

Please dont tell me that yer uncle shot .2s with his old Winchester, GI brass and a Lee loader. Using his favourite hammer and powder he got from his father.

 

[jds holler]

Here's one for ya.

Almost NOBODY used to clean or polish cases. There were no commercial case tumblers, vibrators, and such for the purpose of prettying up your cases. Now it's a major industry.

We all used to just take our ammo, shoot it, and refill it. Matter of fact, some of us still do. jd

 

[CA_Shooter]

If I don’t chamfer the inside of the neck of my brass then when seating the bullet, shavings come off the bullet

So I chamfer the insides of my brass necks

 

[JimSC]

Agreed. I'm not judging anyone here.

I am not judging anyone, I tend to be libertarian by nature. I just pointed out a scientific fact

 

[group therapy]

Reloading has changed for the better. My first pistol loading was 38 spec. On a single stage Lyman. Hours in the shed loading for ISSF Centrefire. Eventually a Lee turret press with micro disc, for 32 S&W. Scores got better when investing in a Dillon 550. Probably as I loaded more and shot more.

I still have the Dillon. Makes Lapua Palma 308's and ADI 223's straight again. The Redding dies help. The dial gauge, decent scales, match primers, wet case cleaner, annealer, mandrel expander and a few years learning by experience dont hurt either.

Please dont tell me that yer uncle shot .2s with his old Winchester, GI brass and a Lee loader. Using his favourite hammer and powder he got from his father.

, WHAT!! my uncle did too!!!

 

[group therapy]

Here's one for ya.

Almost NOBODY used to clean or polish cases. There were no commercial case tumblers, vibrators, and such for the purpose of prettying up your cases. Now it's a major industry.

We all used to just take our ammo, shoot it, and refill it. Matter of fact, some of us still do. jd

nope and yep. I just wipe mine. stuff in the neck is important

 

[9146gt]

Eh, I don't know about the annealers. For as much as my AMP cost me, I'm annealing the hell out of everything for the rest of my life. Science be damned!

I am still really curious about the indexing of rounds thing. I've never encountered a 'serious' competitor doing that outside of Tubb in this video.

When I lived in Indiana many of the best Trap shooters would "index" their rounds.

Tom

 

[BP1]

Agreed. I'm not judging anyone here.

If enough guys tell me they see benefit from sacraficing chickens after they anneal, I'm going to go buy a few chickens, and I'll probably have questions about the optimal knife to use.

No knife Mike just snatchem up by the head and a quick twist and yank and you’re done..

 

[JimSC]

Please dont tell me that yer uncle shot .2s with his old Winchester, GI brass and a Lee loader. Using his favourite hammer and powder he got from his father.

it is interesting that the world record was a .009 group for 40 years from 1973 to 2013, in 2013 it was broken by a .0077 group

 

[RegionRat]

Back in my early reloading days, we did benefit from Runout Indexing. It was easy to demonstrate the effect on group size. Keep in mind, the components we used back then were typically inferior, but “good” brass was especially rare.

We didn’t own personal computers or have smart phones with amazing cameras back then, so digging out paper target records and loading notes would be required to show that work and would be too much effort. I did my load development stats on an IBM mainframe and later on it was on a VAX with a luxury called a full screen editor. Showing your target load work was way harder back then unless you had the resources. Only academics and magazine writers were apt to publish articles with target group photos and most magazine articles were not exactly what I would call objective or scientific. You will have to settle for a lazy story without photos of groups and screen captures of spreadsheets... LOL

It wasn’t unusual in that era (‘70s through 80’s) to get virgin bulk commercial brass and find that less than 25% of it was usable for distance loads without indexing and neck turning. We relied on that NECO gage or similar to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.

The industry evolved and learned to produce better brass (and bullets). We don’t hear about notching our rims to make an index mark these days, but that is because we can process brass and rounds with such good runout with little effort once we purchase good tools and materials.

If forced, I was able to stay competitive using junky commercial brass. The amount of effort required was high, so when better brass came along nobody in their right mind would think doing all that prep work was a good use of their time or money.

I seat with an arbor that has a force pack using a Wilson seater to start out with, then if possible that recipe graduates to full progressive loading methods, (which isn’t always possible). The runouts on the brass and rounds are low without the need to index.

You still hear debates on the value of some loading practices like annealing and neck turning, but indexing isn’t a common discussion these days only because of the tools and materials we have available. Take that good brass out of the market, and we would all be debating the best runout gages.

 

[Tommie]

And in another 20 years today’s techniques will be snickered at.

 

[rr2030]

No one mentioned garlic, so I guess I'm still good to go and not doing anything perceived as antiquated.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

And in another 20 years today’s techniques will be snickered at.

I hope they are; that means we're still allowed to own guns, and something better has been developed.

 

[K22]

Has anyone tested what the effect on accuracy is of the various brass prep steps?

Yes but before I get deluged with comments, the sample size wasn't large or in some case I didn't see any difference after sustained use. Also, I'm not a competitive target shooter - just a varmint / predator hunter but precision is important. I do spend a a lot of time at the range but mostly practical practice not bench shooting.

1. Deburring flash holes and uniforming primer pockets - began doing this years ago but haven't notice any improvement on paper or in the field. I still do it and wonder why.

2. The "bullet weld" issue - I often load rounds in the winter for the up coming summer varmint season and sometimes have loaded rounds that carry over to the next season. Haven't noticed any decline in group sizes. I actually did an informal test comparing 10 rounds freshly loaded to 10 that had been loaded several months before. Did this test on the bench with solid front and rear rests. Saw no significant difference in group size.

3. Neck Sizing - I started loading in the late 60's when I was told that neck sizing produces more accurate reloads and longer case life. After I was re-educated by a bench rest shooter years ago I switched to full sizing. The key is knowing how to full size to produce the optimum shoulder set back. I found that reloads sized this way (properly) actually group either the same or better depending on the rifle, case life was not reduced, and I had the added benefit of reliable chambering reloads, the latter a big plus for me since I'm primarily a hunter.

4. Chamfering - this I feel is necessary on new cases and after trimming since if you don't chamfer the edge of the neck can cut into the bullet especially on flat base bullets. Also, if you don't chamfer, brass particles especially after trimming can break off the edge of the neck and scar you die.

 

[hoz53]

When I saw antiquated / out of style, my first thought was the clothes in my closet.

lol- i was thinking of me