Lapua does not recommend re-annealing?

[jimmymac]

Point taken and it is a great point indeed, but at the end of the day it is still a competition. That's why they keep score and success in that venue is defined by how well you shoot. The main purpose of going to a competition is to compete. I can socialize and have a few laughs no matter where I go. The difference is that at a competition, I'm going to do my best to stomp your butt.

That's why it is a bit discouraging when I realize the deck is pretty well stacked against me because I don't have the funds to keep up with the arms race. I better spend more time learning the wind with the hopes of that making a difference in my agg since I won't have the ability to select from 15 or 20 barrels at any given time.

 

[jimmymac]

...BTW. Sorry for derailing this thread. My posts do not add any value to the annealing discussion. Apologies to the OP and others who have stayed on topic.

 

[sdean]

Dusty might be like President Trump. Could possibly embellish things a lil bit every now and then!!

 

[riflewoman]

"Success" is defined by the 8 inches between our ears ...If success for a person is solely defined by winning a national championship, then there's not much point in showing up to a drag race with a Pinto. If on the other hand, success is defined by sharing the range with some good people and having a few laughs, learning, and simply shooting the best you can with what you have. Then every match you shoot is a success.

If you showed up to even a local drag strip with a Pinto, great levity would ensue.

 

[1shot]

Point taken and it is a great point indeed, but at the end of the day it is still a competition. That's why they keep score and success in that venue is defined by how well you shoot. The main purpose of going to a competition is to compete. I can socialize and have a few laughs no matter where I go. The difference is that at a competition, I'm going to do my best to stomp your butt.

That's why it is a bit discouraging when I realize the deck is pretty well stacked against me because I don't have the funds to keep up with the arms race. I better spend more time learning the wind with the hopes of that making a difference in my agg since I won't have the ability to select from 15 or 20 barrels at any given time.

I have been shooting in competitions since 1970 and the only person I want to beat is me. It certainly doesn’t happen every match, and it can be a better X count, less “9’s” or whatever the goal is that I set for myself. Sooner or later, I will start beating others, and if the stars are in perfect alignment I might even win a match or two.
This mindset keeps it simple and fun for me.
I hope this helps

Lloyd

 

[Dusty Stevens]

1000 cases a season seems like a bat schit crazy number, but I bet the 220r cases are used as a ppc case 1000x more often than in it's stock form. It makes no sense to me, however ... the bbl makers are probably just fine with it.

Thats if you only shoot 10 matches. Top br shooters dont let their brass go too far to even have loose pockets. Ill prep 15-20 for each class at each yardage so thats 80 or so for a weekend match then theyre pitched. The guys that use tuners may go thru 50 for each class and yardage- thats 200 for a weekend match. They rotate more brass thru so just say they last 2 classes theres 100 for a weekend match. People thats never shot short range br have no idea what it takes- its crazy when you think about it

 

[1shot]

Dusty,
I’m a sling/coat shooter, so BR is a totally foreign disapline to me, so pardon my ignorance. Am I reading you correctly that your brass is essentially junk after 1or2 firings?

Lloyd

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Dusty,
I’m a sling/coat shooter, so BR is a totally foreign disapline to me, so pardon my ignorance. Am I reading you correctly that your brass is essentially junk after 1or2 firings?

Lloyd

No it gets probably 10 or so. You shoot a lot of rounds in a br match

 

[rpollock]

Id like to know how many they make. Maybe kevin could fill us in. I know most every ppc shooter that competes all season will go thru 1000+ cases. Ill go thru 100+ on a weekend match- 150 if a 10shot unlimited is going. Nobody i know goes thru more components and barrels than a ppc shooter. 15-20 barrels at a time, 10,000 bullets, kegs of powder, gallons of butchs- its insane to think of what it takes really.

Dusty I shoot a lot of short range shoots. I don’t know anybody who goes through 100 cases in a weekend shoot. You only fire 100 shots on record, and maybe the same number of sighters. Total of 200 rounds. I use 12-15 cases for a weekend shoot and toss them.

 

[stifffingers]

Thats what I was pointing out. Absolutely zero benefit on passenger and light truck tires. Just another wallet flush. Maybe we need another thread on wallet flushes and oil coated low restriction air filters.

Buy your tires or air them up at Costco, the nitrogen is free.

 

[fatheeler]

Buy your tires or air them up at Costco, the nitrogen is free.

air is 78.5% Nitrogen

 

[Lou Murdica]

Well, not a metallurgist, but I was an aerospace engineer mechanical and know a bit about metallurgy. Worked with metallurgists and I asked one directly. See some of my posts about annealing. There’s one in this thread...http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/how-many-reloads-before-annealing.3963272/page-4.

I think Lapua is afraid of people doing it wrong. From what I see there’s about 90% of the information on how to “anneal” is wrong. The AMP people have data, but it is geared to their machine. But it does indicate that you must get the brass hotter than most of the recommendations out there. https://www.ampannealing.com/ Read the articles in the media tab. You might not fully understand what’s going on, but their results mirror what any metallurgist Worth his pay will tell you. None of the other machine makers do this.

And not all the information you get out of the ammo makers is good either. Norma said that brass will age harden and that is metallurgically impossible.

FWIW.

I am sponsored by Lapua and I agree with what you think

 

[47WillysGuy]

Dusty might be like President Trump. Could possibly embellish things a lil bit every now and then!!

I think it's called "stirring the pot" and it's done regularly here.

 

[M-61]

Tire manufacturers do not recommend repairing flats. (Especially motorcycles).

I assume most manufacturers recommend doing nothing to their product as they have zero control over what someone might do.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Thats if you only shoot 10 matches. Top br shooters dont let their brass go too far to even have loose pockets. Ill prep 15-20 for each class at each yardage so thats 80 or so for a weekend match then theyre pitched. The guys that use tuners may go thru 50 for each class and yardage- thats 200 for a weekend match. They rotate more brass thru so just say they last 2 classes theres 100 for a weekend match. People thats never shot short range br have no idea what it takes- its crazy when you think about it

Why would a tuner user use more brass than a non tuner user. Don't tell me it's still because they are constantly moving their tuner!

True story...If they are using a tuner right, they should use less brass and fire fewer shots...period. What am I missing here Dusty?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Why would a tuner user use more brass than a non tuner user. Don't tell me it's still because they are constantly moving their tuner!

True story...If they are using a tuner right, they should use less brass and fire fewer shots...period. What am I missing here Dusty?

They still move em mike. Shoot 2, tweak, shoot 2, figure out whats what then go

 

[1shot]

They still move em mike. Shoot 2, tweak, shoot 2, figure out whats what then go

OMG!!!
I knew there was a reason I never graduated from a neanderthal sling/coat shooter! LOL

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

They still move em mike. Shoot 2, tweak, shoot 2, figure out whats what then go

Ok, I get that much...I do the same but once tuned, only a single two shot group to confirm tune on each card for a 5 target agg is 10 shots per class, minus sighters that they'd fire without a tuner. You said that you prep 15-20 cases for each. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should be firing more with a tuner than without. You're prepping 15-20 for a 5 shot record group. Why would a tuner mean you need triple THAT? That just doesn't make sense...or, it explains that there is still confusion out there about how to use a tuner. I'll admit that on very rare occasions, I've chased tune with the tuner and shot more than I would without one. Those days were my fault, not the tuner...but they are few and far between. I get that human nature may drive one to move it and shoot, more..but it's only because they are either moving it too far, missing the sweet spot or they are chasing something else...conditions or gun problems.

Don't get me wrong...I enjoy talking tuners with shooters but if it's as you say, they aren't listening..err some aren't. It's just way simpler than that! No need to over complicate them. One mark at a time...It either gets better or worse. If it gets better, you either stay with it or move another mark and go again. If it gets worse...go the other way 1 mark. Two marks is a HUGE swing!..so you can't be far out at ANY TIME! It doesn't get much easier than that. Sorry for the rant. I am always truly happy to discuss them with anyone that wants to better understand what I have found to work....every dang time! Tuners are freakin' game changers. But not if you're moving them too far and/or too often.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Ok, I get that much...I do the same but once tuned, only a single two shot group to confirm tune on each card for a 5 target agg is 10 shots per class, minus sighters that they'd fire without a tuner. You said that you prep 15-20 cases for each. There is absolutely no reason why anyone should be firing more with a tuner than without. You're prepping 15-20 for a 5 shot record group. Why would a tuner mean you need triple THAT? That just doesn't make sense...or, it explains that there is still confusion out there about how to use a tuner. I'll admit that on very rare occasions, I've chased tune with the tuner and shot more than I would without one. Those days were my fault, not the tuner...but they are few and far between. I get that human nature may drive one to move it and shoot, more..but it's only because they are either moving it too far, missing the sweet spot or they are chasing something else...conditions or gun problems.

Don't get me wrong...I enjoy talking tuners with shooters but if it's as you say, they aren't listening..err some aren't. It's just way simpler than that! No need to over complicate them. One mark at a time...It either gets better or worse. If it gets better, you either stay with it or move another mark and go again. If it gets worse...go the other way 1 mark. Two marks is a HUGE swing!..so you can't be far out at ANY TIME! It doesn't get much easier than that. Sorry for the rant. I am always truly happy to discuss them with anyone that wants to better understand what I have found to work....every dang time! Tuners are freakin' game changers. But not if you're moving them too far and/or too often.

Most dont use your tuner and i see people cranking them like winding a clock

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Most dont use your tuner and i see people cranking them like winding a clock

Then they deserve it! Just kidding! There are makers that offer different instructions for theirs, some that offer none at all. I've only found ONE way that works....with any of them! I've tried them all. Anyone that hasn't tried moving their tuner 1/1000th at a time is cheating themselves out of properly using the best tool for BR in YEARS!
It's theirs, though...they can use it right or wrong, their choice. And no, there is not more than one way to skin this cat....except blind ass luck.

edit:
I'm not going to change what I've said above...because I believe every bit of it BUT, I don't want to sound like it's impossible for me to be wrong. I am surely happy to hear from anyone that has a different method that works for them. Unless using a tuner seems like cheating and is the easiest tuning method you've ever found or imagined, I would like to ask you to try my method of tuning with one. They are just that, virtually if not completely without exception to my knowledge..the easiest way to tune a rifle that you can imagine. I didn't invent them and I don't make that claim but there has been so much misinformation about tuners, for so long, that I firmly believe that the only issue with having 100% success with a tuner is in how it's used. All tuners that I've ever seen, and are well made and properly installed, do work and work as I am happy to describe to anyone that asks and is willing to try my method to. Yes, I feel like my tuners are better than the other guys' and I hope that everyone agrees...but, to be honest, they all work very nearly the same way. Some are better than others but the principle that they all work on is the same. There are not some that require turning them 1/4, 1/2 or full turns...none of them, to my knowledge.

Ok...I'm done. Back to your regularly scheduled program.